Ep 283 - James Henderson "The Defense Let Us Down"

James Henderson of InsidePackSports.com defends his take that the defense was the reason we lost the Clemson game and not the offense. I will not stand for any such blasphemy.

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Transcription

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00:21.66
redwhitepodcast
All right folks we are back with another dish of the red white podcast I'm host Evan after a controversial ish loss to Clemson. No better protagonist for my conversation than James Henderson James how are you doing.

00:37.11
James
Good man I'm I'm a come on here and I guess be the homer is is what I'm supposed to be right? So you know? Yeah yeah.

00:44.97
redwhitepodcast
Um, well that this we're gonna get into it I wish will was here and Zach they both wanted in on this but your statement and we've been texted about it all morning just you know it's football season when our threads get get rolling.

01:00.61
redwhitepodcast
Defense lets you down this game. The the defense is a reason and he say lost his game. That's how do you get there? okay.

01:03.33
James
100 % 100% yeah yeah um okay let's go to let's go to Twenty sixteen right that's a game. Everybody wants to talk about. We know why everybody remembers that game a lot of times it's because of you missing the field goal but I was on our boards here over the weekend after the game and a guy made a comment of how Ryan Finley saved insy state that day and played out of his mind right? So I went back and looked at the numbers Ryan Finley was 20 of 40 Two hundred yards pass and 0 touchdowns 2 interceptions that offense that day scored with 17 points. Well actually ten because you had a pick 6 all right? You had a pick 6 in that game you Clemson turned the ball over 4 times.

01:42.20
redwhitepodcast
A.

01:52.24
James
Who who when I tell you that who are we blaming for that guy that outcome but okay, but I mean offense defense right? right? but offense or defense right? I mean because like like seriously we would ah you know if state would have scored twenty that day and one everybody had been happy right.

01:56.70
redwhitepodcast
Bambard.

02:03.91
redwhitepodcast
Um.

02:08.11
redwhitepodcast
Well certainly what we we can't.

02:11.56
James
But before four turnovers I'm just saying 4 turnovers for and a pick six and that defense was not on the level of this defense you go to Clemson playing in that environment and we've been told here for you know all off season First 4 4 games of the year defense of the strength of this team you go into that environment. You don't force a turnover. You don't get a sack Clemson scored on 7 of their 10 possessions really sick well six but they also missed the field goal on another so seven six of their 10 possessions. They scored points on i. I don't they scored 30 points. How many teams are going into Clemson in that environment and and winning by scoring over 30 points. Probably not many if just offensively donca I'm out I'm just talking stats. Yeah like numbers I mean.

02:53.53
redwhitepodcast
I look at it I look at it in a different way though like so you're talking about at at some point I know but numbers are numbers a lot you can pull a number and make it say whatever you want to say what. You know I think what I'm looking at is not I don't think it's the fact that the defense didn't win this game for but I think it's and I'm not even Charlotte word this is you're expecting the defense to go out and win the game. You know make. They should have had 2 interceptions right? They should have had the fumble wasn't reviewed right? You're expecting the defense to go do with this. My expectation is that the defense is strong enough against a very elite talented team that your offense has to play that part to and your offense did not.

03:31.76
James
And.

03:41.53
James
I Don't think their offense is elite I Don't think their offense is elite.

03:48.91
redwhitepodcast
But they have talent they have elite town Everyone define it right? They are been recruiting at an elite level your defense if you were scaling this somehow and I wish people could see my hands or if if you're the defense you're expecting a defense to put on an elite performance to carry your offense who is not putting on ah an elite performance.

04:02.20
James
Um.

04:08.58
redwhitepodcast
Right? At some point you need balance. That's how I look at it I'm not saying the defense lost this game but they they didn't make enough plays I agree with that they should have gotten those interceptions they should have gotten the fumble but they didn't and.

04:10.34
James
Well I but it's not even to me. It's not even just the turnovers. It's the fact that like I said I mean Clemson had 7 scoring drives like even if you take away. I mean the reason the score wasn't worse. It was a low possession game. You know we talked about this in our text chat I mean I think we were talking about a half time. What was a score ten six or 1310 and you're looking at that score thinking it's a low scoring game right? It's thirteen ten at half is that what it was yeah 1310.

04:37.67
redwhitepodcast
1013 Hey.

04:47.13
James
Oh man, both defenses are playing greatness game. No, they're not Clemson is in cstate has scored on 2 of their drives in the first half clemson has scored on 3 of their 4 drives in the first half. So the 2 offenses in the first half it scored on 5 of the 7 drives. It was just a low possession game because both offenses were. Having the ball like state had an 8 minute drive as bad offensive as they are in that environment the very first drive of there of the game frenzy state was an 8 minute drive nc state got the ball in the second quarter on their third drive went down and scored a touchdown to take the lead knowing you're getting the ball back to start the second half what does your defense. Do. You go out and give up a seventy five yard drive in a minute in 8 seconds like that's why I'm looking at the defen here. The defense is supposed to be your strength I'm not saying go out and win it and be elite I'm just saying don't be average to below average. You can't tell me you didn't think forensy state that was an average to below average defensive performance.

05:39.59
redwhitepodcast
I don't think so at all I don't think so at all and I mean we're just talking about the overall yeah, 3 points of possession. You'll probably take that in most games and win your offense has to produce that if you go back to it right? state the first drive of the game clips.

05:41.68
James
To give up 30 points it 30 points in 10 possessions.

05:49.59
James
I ah 3 points in 3 points per possession you go and average that out and looking at and in a normal hop at a normal possession game. Most games are fourteen fifteen possessions so

05:57.70
redwhitepodcast
Yeah, glimpsed.

06:02.33
redwhitepodcast
Yeah I mean you got you got to score 30 you guys score thirty plus these days to win I agree I agree with that.

06:07.53
James
No no, one's going into Clemson is scorering 30 points like like we we can talk about how great we can talk about how great wake for his defense offense is they went to Clemson last year and score twenty eight I'm just saying nobody's nobody's winning in that environment without help from your defense.

06:15.43
redwhitepodcast
At different teams. You can't go back to last year and pull these things together that doesn't work that way. Well, you're not winning a help from your offense at the same point state Clemson drives down the field first play first drive of the game they get in the field they get into the red zone.

06:25.29
James
You know like it.

06:32.64
James
Yep.

06:34.50
redwhitepodcast
Holding a three that's a win right? State comes down to the same thing to get into the red zone get 3 next play the game next drive you get them going 3 and out stake is of all the 48 they go 3 and out. You got you have to take advantage of those opportunities they didn't next drive the team. No.

06:44.38
James
M that that that and that's the one and that's the one opportunity where stay had a short field all game go and look at a drive chart.

06:54.23
redwhitepodcast
they they they drew they didn't score there the next next possession Clemson gets the ball state gets them goes 3 and out and then we run into the kicker that's not on until you're but you're put that long and grave on the defense right.

07:03.46
James
Okay, so so you give it so okay, you run into the kicker. What one up none. no no no no no 100% where did where but but if you got the drive chart out up where did that put them out on the field work.

07:11.92
redwhitepodcast
Yes.

07:15.61
redwhitepodcast
I Have no idea I don't have it up.

07:18.96
James
I mean I can pull it up where I mean I think they ended up having the ball still at like the 25 or thirty because they were backed up if I remember correctly. So like what prevent you? What prevents you from getting right back off the field if you give them that five yard penalty like they still have they're still at their 30 just get back off the field i.

07:22.62
redwhitepodcast
Um, yeah, they were and that's the thing they they.

07:31.29
redwhitepodcast
They did then they got the gift. They got the gift pass interference that was another one like you know that those things happen but those 2 are not you so you're putting that on and that's not their fault that that is some nonsense.

07:38.61
James
I'm I'm just saying get off the field right? I mean because we don't no no, no, no, no, No what I'm saying is I didn't even bring any of that up. What I'm saying is when that happens for the ah Offense. We don't do the same thing for the ah offense and bring that up like we're We're not sitting here saying well. If this would have happened for the offense they would have done this right? like we're we're we're trying to put an asterisk on something for the defense here I'm just looking strictly at what the defense did you're right? A special teams came in gave up a ah.

08:05.21
redwhitepodcast
You can't look at numbers though. That's that's this is where we defer I watch this game and those plays matter you can't just look at the box score and say the defense let me down.

08:14.39
James
I didn't I didn't say that play didn't matter what I said was even if you gave them a first down on a special teams running into the kicker they still had seventy yards to go you still could get another stop defensively you you and you can and you can't be tired.

08:28.61
redwhitepodcast
And they did and then they got the pi.

08:33.54
James
Do your offense just had the ball for 8 minutes you can't be tired like but but the drop but the drive before that the drive before that NC states offense had to ball 8 minutes 8 minutes like I don't understand how we get into these games because Doran does this a lot too and I completely disagree with it.

08:33.91
redwhitepodcast
No oftens had the ball. The offens had the ball for 50 seconds they went 3 plays in out before that that was then.

08:53.39
James
You might want to save this because everybody says I never like shit on coaches. So Doran does this and I don't even agree with like how do you bring up a defense being tired in the second quarter of a game in the second quarter of a game. What are we doing here your offense just had the ball for 8 minutes you got a 3 and out the de the offense got a 3 your offense then went 3 and out which is fine. You're not going to go and so and against Clemson's defense I don't know what we expected. Maybe we thought ny state's defense offense would have another scoring drive that would have been awesome but we are playing at Clemson in in that environment I may heaven forbid. They go 3 and out. But yeah, they went 3 and out. You're tired already. Ah I don't I don't understand why you're.

09:34.88
redwhitepodcast
I mean they still held them to a field goal they Clemson would went down the field 7 minute drive they still held them to a field goal state scores a touchdown and then this is where it gets off the rails Clemson comes down the field right before halftime.

09:47.29
James
That was a drive of the game that was a drive the game and that's on the defense.

09:51.68
redwhitepodcast
That there was all right is this is where it gets off the rails that they they scored it came out seventy five yards in a minute and 20 and scored should have been a fumble I get all that should there was a p I in there I believe that shouldn't have happened and then.

09:59.98
James
That.

10:06.94
redwhitepodcast
We get the ball 30 seconds hey let me ask you this one thirty seconds end of the half two time outs and you need it. You don't try to get in field goal range in a game. That's 3 point game. What what's the thought process there and that's to me this is where the offense starts you in that regards you you.

10:22.44
James
Um, I mean.

10:26.23
redwhitepodcast
Take a knee you just I'm a going locker room down three I'm happy with that and then the offse gets off the rails there. Do you agree with taking a knee there with 2 timeouts and 30 seconds or do you try to get into field goal RainCClemson sitting back. You could throw some underneath stuff. You could get a long field goal for done.

10:30.75
James
Well let me.

10:44.31
redwhitepodcast
Whose 49 yarder looked like it was good from 60

10:47.27
James
Well I mean do you think ginsey state has a great offense. Okay, and so if you don't think Nsey State has a great offense I don't know why it like again for me because normally I am and and but I'm I'm basing on a opponent.

10:50.38
redwhitepodcast
No, not at all.

11:05.62
James
Um, I'd always be trying to score there with with a guy like Leary because I think Leary's really good He's been good in 2 minute offenses in the past all those things but Clemson has momentum now after that drive you're getting the ball coming out to start the second half. What happened at East Carolina you threw the touch that you threw the interception gave East Carolina short field they go down and score touchdown if you go back to right before to half against youon nc state was trying to score I believe they turned to turn they had a turnover again on an interception gave you kind of short field. They kicked the field goal right? before to half right like similar deal. If you're in that. Why not just take it and go to halftime at that point like you yeah, you've got twenty I don't think that's playing the lose. You're you've got 28 seconds to go what fifty yards with what you thinks a bad offense like a gets clipse is deep is Clemson's defense

11:42.27
redwhitepodcast
I'm not playing to lose. Yeah.

11:56.67
James
I don't think that's playing to lose I think that's making a smart decision and like I said I'm normally go for it there I am I just didn't think in 8 in 8 minutes I mean in 8 minutes you've got you got 28 seconds right you've got 28 seconds

11:58.25
redwhitepodcast
But you're your offense just went seventy five yards and scored though like it's you well the the drive before that was it was a 4 men drive before that 31 seconds when I got the ball.

12:14.77
James
So I mean again again 31 seconds so we can sit here and think ny steak and go down. Yeah 100% there's a lot of things that could happen.

12:18.51
redwhitepodcast
Get you can get into field goal right? Like you got to ah to me it it it to me is' the mindset though like you your offense takes that approach and you take that approach and this is Chris says I think is extremely valid of.

12:30.24
James
But that's not up, but that's not historically NCState's offices that we've seen NCState like that's what I mean we can't let 1 game dictate. What we think they do mentally we've seen NC state time and time again before to have try and score in that situation.

12:44.39
redwhitepodcast
I think.

12:47.13
James
This is just this is just 1 game I mean they made a complete reel last year of devon leary getting the ball 45 seconds ago before they have time going down and getting a field goal doing doing it time and time again trying to score there. They just didn't do it this time because you're at Clemson in that environment getting the ball back like I don't think that's historically how Nc stay has played under Tim back or Dave Dorn

12:56.35
redwhitepodcast
But that's.

13:04.75
redwhitepodcast
I Think historically they've been I think historically they've been conservative I don't think many people will argue about that You can pull some plays here and there.

13:06.96
James
I think they've gone for. So you don't think before the half that you don't think before the half they've gone for They've tried to get into score and position. Those situations.

13:16.88
redwhitepodcast
Maybe in those situations. It's probably fifty fifty I don't I don't have numbers in front of me I have to go back and look I feel like we've taken a knee plenty of times. But even so that that just exacerbates my point if you have 30 so 30 seconds and you have a good 2 minute offense right? That's one things that we've done really? well.

13:27.50
James
Um.

13:35.20
James
Um.

13:35.42
redwhitepodcast
Underback with leary is run that quick offense and get quickyards clemson sitting back dropping eight I mean you got you got to take a chance you got to keep being aggressive in that situation because you are the underdog you're in their house I think there's a part of you That's just says.

13:42.43
James
I don't know what Clemson will do.

13:52.96
redwhitepodcast
If you give up that and you take a knee then you're like oh well we can't do anything. It's them and that's how it turned out in the second half you couldn't go anywhere. Couldn't do anything I think that kind of that bleeds over.

14:02.72
James
Yeah I I just don't think I'm not gonna I don't think of to me ah like it all depends on what you want to focus on right? It's like the it's like what you put, you know the um the the graphic you put or the poll you put up on Twitter about the office or the defense. It's all what you want to focus on.

14:08.10
redwhitepodcast
Sure.

14:15.80
redwhitepodcast
I Had to throw you under the busting.

14:18.65
James
Like you want you want to focus on right? You want to focus on the 31 seconds where they didn't go down and score I want to focus on the fact that your defense gave up a seventy five yard drive in a minute when that's supposed to be the strength of your team right before that. So it's which one do you want to kind of pick on this which one do you want to talk about right? 100% is it

14:28.96
redwhitepodcast
That was not the best that was not the best series I mean that was stop The best series they should not have sat back that.

14:38.43
James
And and and again this all adds into like I don't know what you pick for the game you y'all do predictions on what you thought the fight the the outcome would be. You had who win a state. Yeah so you had them. You had them score in 27 so you would had them losing giving up 30

14:43.89
redwhitepodcast
I think I said 27 24 state winning I know it was a bit of a homer pick. I yeah, don't expect him to give up 30 I mean that I thought it was going to be a slower game.

14:58.51
James
Right? and and 100 and that's all I'm saying I'm not I'm not shitting on the defense I'm not praising Tim back by saying that I'm just saying if there's 1 element of this game offense or defense I'm most disappointed in. It's the defense I had nc state winning this game 24 eighteen so maybe that's kind of the problem there. Maybe I thought the defense would be better than I probably should have expected them to be and I thought the offense would have scored I still thought the offse should have scored more than twenty I'm not saying that I'm not Sandy offense was good but when I look at this game and I sit here and tell you on the surface if you look at it at a team going to Clemson. Prime time game national television they're ranked in the top 5 and you go into that place and your defense doesn't create a turnover your special team doesn't create a big play. You think you're winning that game. No. No matter what we want to saw talk about the ah you're off you mentioned one drive where Nc states offense. Got the ball in any sort of good field position. They got it at the forty Eight Yard line one drive I mean I'm looking at Nc State Drive chart right now they started at the.

16:04.12
redwhitepodcast
Still okay, ah field position aside you gotta they had no nothing in the second half we went over this in chat 3 plays minus no it's not three plays minus eleven yards ten plays 40 three yards three plays zero yards three plays seven yards interception

16:09.81
James
Um, but but a lot of that is a lot of that's also field position.

16:21.22
redwhitepodcast
6 plays five yards punt 10 plays forty two yards fumble like that's the.

16:21.83
James
Yep, which was more yards they had that was the play they had to dad that was a play they had a bad snap. It was more yards than that so they had so they had so I'm looking their drive chart now they had 7 drives in the second half 6 Yes 7 drives in the second half and on on.

16:29.65
redwhitepodcast
Still.

16:39.35
James
4 of them. They had 6 or more plays. But if I'm looking at where their starting field position is and the third and the second after they're on Twenty Five Twenty Five twenty nine thirty eight Twenty 5 16 25 like defense special teams didn't help you out at all and that's kind of what I keep going back to you're right? I'm not I'm not saying the offense was really really good in this game. I'm saying that d if you're going to win in this game win this game against Clemson your defense and special teams have to do something to give you a chance. That's why I brought up 2016 earlier. You had 4 turnovers force you got to pick 6 and and we don't even look at that. We just sit here and think man. Drink which might have been good that day. No, you only had a chance to win that game because of the force turnovers and the pick 6 and in this game you didn't get any of that and you lost thirty twenty now you lost 30 to 20 in a game where you didn't do anything from a a. Having standpoint defensive. You didn't even get a sack in this game like Clemson had 30 dropbacks in this game you didn't get a single sack and this is supposed to be a pressure defense creating all these negative plays all these things and you didn't do any of that. But I'm supposed to be mad at that offense like. I don't know man like I just think it's tough expecting nc state or any offense to go into Clemson put up 30 plus points in a game where you don't get good field position. You don't get any help from your defense I just think that's unrealistic.

18:03.44
redwhitepodcast
The field position. It's not like they are pinned inside the 10 right? they are.

18:09.56
James
Well no I mean but like like they had 6 I'm looking at now they had 6 drives at start 7 drives that started seventy five yards or longer away from a touchdown 7 of their 10 drives. Oh yeah.

18:17.94
redwhitepodcast
And you had two hundred yards outside of the garbage time drive. You had two hundred yards of offense two hundred yards of offense is not get it done. The defense was good enough in the first half despite not even having the havoc plays where you should have been.

18:27.53
James
Right.

18:36.88
redwhitepodcast
You should have been up. You could have been up.

18:37.73
James
Again, 4 possessions for possessions you get like I get like ah letting the letting a team score 75% of their possessions to me is not very good like I don't think either defense was really good in the first half I don't I don't think either defense was really good in he state scored 10 points on 3 possessions against Clemson's defense in the first half.

18:46.80
redwhitepodcast
Um, I mean we.

18:54.25
James
You't had a ball 3 times like literally 3 times go go pull up the box score from NC state wake forest last last year or wake forests clemson last week see how many possessions were in that game NC state office shortened the game they had a 8 minute drive to start the game Clemson had a 7 minute drive to start the game.

18:54.37
redwhitepodcast
See this is where.

19:12.33
James
That was the whole first quarter neither defense was neither defense was really good but we're look weak. That's why I'm saying we're just looking at the score is 1310 and we think our defense was good. No your defense gave up 3 scores and 4 possessions and even Clemson's defense

19:13.44
redwhitepodcast
Example.

19:29.99
James
As bad as state's offenses in the first half nc state's offense had a field goal. they had a punt and they had a touchdown they had a 15 place Seventy Eight yard drive that went 8 minutes on the very first possession when you know a lot of times people think you shit to bed first possession because you're not ready for this environment. All these things. You had a 15 place Seventy Eight Yard drive when 8 minutes you could ask for a better start to that game offensively then you go 3 and out then you get the ball back. Go 9 play Seventy five yards in 4 minutes I I you and so you're thinking okay where we score there 52 left in the half. Defense comes out. Do what you're supposed to do get a stop now. We're up ten six going into a half time. Get the ball back and start a third quarter defense gives up a drive in a minute. The first drive that went a minute the holes the whole first half they went um, 8 play seventy five yards in a minute 20 seconds again I'm not trying to I'm I'm very unbiased with this I don't I'm not trying to protect offense I'm not trying to protect defense I love tony gibson I hell if if Dave Doran left I would almost consider promoting Tony Gibbs I love Tony Gibson and as a defense coordinator. But if I'm looking at this game objectively. I don't really understand how I can be mad at the ah offense even though I don't think the offense was really good for four quarters I don't but you can't tell me that like Clemson scoring on 6 of their 10 drives. They would have done 7 but they missed a forty Yard field goal thankfully.

20:57.27
James
7 of 10 drives is not good defense to me. It's it's not I don't like if if this was a normal for huh.

21:04.54
redwhitepodcast
Clumson had 6 possessions in that 6 clumson had 6 possessions in the wake forest game in the first half.

21:10.20
James
Right? And they had 4 in this one. So if they so they score 3 out of 4 in this one so add up 5 out of 6 against way far as to see what you're looking at from a scoring standpoint.

21:19.10
redwhitepodcast
Well they scored in their first 2 of their first 2 2 and they scored an earth on their third one or their fifth one so I mean

21:25.69
James
Right? So they got 2 more that you could score on so you you score 13 points in this game you add 2 more drives to it that you're scoring on like like I don't think nc state's defense was really good in this game and and that doesn't mean I hate Tony Gibson or I hate their players. It's just 1 game.

21:42.23
redwhitepodcast
So this is the disconnect though you're you're talking about that I don't think they were good. What's good. What is good to you get like not getting holding to 0 points.

21:45.60
James
But I like I said I mean. Right? Okay, you? What's good is me pull up pull up pull up the stat broadcast from 2017 or I mean from from last year pull up the stat broadcast from last year pull up the box score from last year pull up the one from like we talked about 2016 you want good defense. Force 4 turnovers get a pick six I do something that's impactful if you're gonna go and upset a team like Clemson like this isn't a game where you're playing Louisville at home. Right? This isn't Louisville at home where you're you're going in and you're playing a defense that's giving up 45 points a game every week and you go and score twenty this isn't that this isn't even Clemson going and playing at wake forest last week I guarantee you state probably wins this game if it was at home this year you may disagree with me state wins this game feel was at home this year. That's how much I think that that environment on Saturday mattered to Clemson went in this game Dave talked about in the press box one of things helping or in his press conference was this week one of things helping Clemson get off the box state was doing everything off the off the snap. So as a rush. You don't have to worry about cadence or anything you're just getting off the ball on a snap. They're getting their pin in their ears back getting back and they can do that at home.

23:01.75
James
You can't do that in Raleigh. But I just don't look at this and see I mean even you take the 2 teams away from it if I told you a defense like I said Clemson was 50% almost on third down scored on 6 of their 10 drives. You didn't force a sack. You didn't force a turnover take the teams away from it. Are you gonna tell me that team played good defense I don't think so and I'm not gonna use the fact that Clemson only scored 30 because they had 10 possessions as a reason for. Like how many total possessions did they have against wake forest.

23:39.11
redwhitepodcast
I mean it went to overtime but I closed the box score it was I think it was 11 who's.

23:42.97
James
Or yeah, would take take the take the oh wow I mean if you chime it by 3 I just don't think in c like I said I don't think ncstate if they were being honest with you would tell you they thought their defense played well in this game they may say up publicly to just kind of make everybody feel good. They expected a better defensive performance than that we all did no I didn't see anybody I know I wasn't picking in East Clemson the score 30 I mean I thought Clemson was score eighteen I thought I mean Clemson scored 30 on Furman at home I may won that game. What 30 to 12 I I don't really think I am being kind of you know I don't take it like I'm being bad or you know looking down at inc state by saying I expected the defense to be better like they were not. They were not crew. They did not create any havoc at all this game. They didn't help their ah their offense out at all.

24:18.51
redwhitepodcast
Me.

24:37.83
James
And you're right? The offense wasn't good either. But if I'm sitting here saying which one of these two I have higher expectations for us. The defense don't you.

24:44.21
redwhitepodcast
Last year was seven seven and half time so it's not that much of it. It was not that much of a difference. They scored 2 touchdowns last year this year where they got a couple field goals like.

24:47.22
James
Right. What were what were the what were the drive charts in the first half last year

24:57.25
redwhitepodcast
ah 4 for twelve five for eighty three for 0 3 for 3 oh ah 7 1 2 3 4 7 in the halftime here 7

24:59.88
James
No I mean how many possessions how many possessions.

25:12.29
James
So so they said they had 1 score and drive in 7 possessions. That's a good defensive performance to me in this one. You had 3 and 4 possessions I I'm just ah one her I'm yeah I'm just saying.

25:16.47
redwhitepodcast
Um, yeah, but that was also Clemson's like historically worst offense like I mean you got to put it in context like it's they were terrible last year where offense was bad hey.

25:29.70
James
Yall yeah'll. We've we've been here in Deeja like everybody still thinks DJ's terrible right? Like I mean doall think do youa think Dee J's great now of the ah right? but but I'm saying 3 and and this defense you've got Peyton Wilson back you has Cyrus Fagan back you' got CJClark back

25:33.73
redwhitepodcast
Was okay, we he was okay now he was okay, he missed some easy ones.

25:45.98
James
Everybody assumes n c state defense is gonna be better. All I'm saying is they didn't play the way we expected I don't it doesn't mean I love tim back because I'm saying that I'm just saying like I'm evaluating the defense as it played 3 points per possession is not good to me.

25:46.16
redwhitepodcast
Legan did last.

25:59.10
redwhitepodcast
Well.

26:04.85
James
In this era of college football that are normally high possession games. A you gave up 3 scoring drives and 4 possessions I don't care how you get to it. That's what happened and we're talking about a team that that the last two years has been one of the best teams on third down one of the best teams getting 3 and outs in the country and you didn't do that this game well actually you did. Crazy thing about this box score when you look at it Clemson had 10 drives. They had 3 3 and outce every other drive they scored on or miss the field goal think about how crazy that is every other drive they scored on or missed the field. So if they picked up a first down you can go away put points on the board. How am I how am I going to hear your stat like that and think state played really good defensively or was this game wasn't on the defense I mean literally if they picked up a first down they scored. That's crazy to me.

26:59.67
redwhitepodcast
Um, I mean.

27:01.90
James
I mean like and there's not you can argue with that. That's you can't tell me that's good defense 7 drives.

27:04.71
redwhitepodcast
My definition of good defense in 2022 is not holding a team to nothing holding the holding a top 5 team at their house to 13 is and should have been less than thirteen is is is is what you expect today. Go back and look at any other game.

27:15.45
James
But it's possession driven though it it.

27:24.69
redwhitepodcast
Even in championship games. The defenses are not winning these battles. You're not holding teams to 0 points so you can't say they may just didn't make disruptive I know but you're saying they didn't make enough plays and then they gave up too many points.

27:32.18
James
I'm not saying 0 I'm just saying not 30 I'm not saying I'm just saying not 30 I mean I think there's a big gap between 0 and 30 like like 2016 that game or last year that game was 1414 and in the regulation.

27:45.49
redwhitepodcast
Right.

27:48.20
James
I would love clemson to score 14 pointsed into regulation on Saturday night I'm not saying 0 I mean 14 you score you might have won that game. As bad as everybody thinks the offense has been what I mean is like it's hard. You I just can't look at at 13 points at half time or Nc State Score in 10 at halftime to meet nc state's offene was bad. Like so you think nc state ah offense was bad in the first half because they only had 10 points I mean they scored on 2 of 3 possessions that is official. You only you scored on 2 or 3 possessions. You only had three. You only had 3 possessions. Oh okay, well.

28:10.84
redwhitepodcast
I Didn't think it was I don't think it's efficient I Don't think it was efficient.

28:22.61
redwhitepodcast
That's bad defense from Clemson that's I mean that's how it works. That's that's where your logic's going I mean that's the way your logic is going like.

28:27.80
James
I guess that's one way that's one way to look at it. Yeah I mean that's one way to look at I mean I know it's not I'm not im my logic getting't going here anywhere at all all I'm saying is you can only score it's like the it the Virginia and basketball right? Everybody tells me Virginia's efficient and basketball because they score x amount of points on x amount of possessions. All I'm saying is I can't expect the score to be 24 twenty fourteen to half time when nc state had the ball 3 times like there's no physical There's no possible way. You can score twenty seven halftime points if you had to ball 3 times a what are we expecting nc state to have against Clemson when they only had the ball 3 times in the first half.

28:59.92
redwhitepodcast
At half time it was ten thirteen did you think we had a chance to win that game. Yes, exactly like the the defense was playing good enough to hold Clemson.

29:05.39
James
Yes, 100% 100% I did not expect the defense to give up 17 points in the second half I mandate the offense played more the offense had who okay you've got the step broadcast up.

29:15.17
redwhitepodcast
They were on the field the entire game because the offense couldn't do anything. We couldn't We couldn't get.

29:23.43
James
Who had more snaps in this game you off sort of defense.

29:26.39
redwhitepodcast
Ah, gotta be the offense because they kept being either I have no idea.

29:28.32
James
Um, well that that shouldn't be possible. The defense is tired if the defense is heaven forbid they play set like it's so hilarious to me. Ah, but we were what we were talking about this for the Texas Tech Game they asked Nc States defense all week. Are you guys prepared to play a hundred snaps against Texas tech.

29:44.99
James
And it's like they ended up playing 65 I think in that game. It's like it's like you play 65 against Clemson. Are you really tired I'm not making excuses for the defense I'm not I'm not gonna make excuses with the defense like I don't think 65 snaps or 68 or whatever it was is a lot I don't last year

29:45.63
redwhitepodcast
Yeah.

30:04.84
James
How many snaps did n' see Dick Clemson's defense play. This is the thing about the whole like offense same coordinator last year NCState had to ball 90 snaps on offense the defense I think yeah, the defense last year was on the field for 48 snaps

30:15.12
redwhitepodcast
Offense played 3 more snats.

30:23.20
James
Give the offense credit for that. But but like I just don't think this wasn't one of these games where like to be the whole tired thing would work if ncstate offense had to ball 40 touch 40 snaps and Clemson was at 85 yeah is you can argue that that the defense was tired. The snaps were the same. Like I don't know what we expected the offense the defense to do.

30:44.37
redwhitepodcast
It's I mean I guess it's it's how you look at it right? I expect my offense to put points on the board I don't expect them to go 3 and out 3 and out 6 and out I mean they they got zero yards they had you can't argue the the offense was not effective.

30:55.73
James
But well those were negative negative plays were creating that too I mean like there's somehow somehow it's possible for them to have a 6 play drive. It had five yards I don't know how that's possible but because you have to get ten yards to get a first down so that's that's mind bogging to me I mean but yeah, when your quarterback's getting sacked or you're taking penalties. You know? Yes, you're gonna have some like I think they had a fumble snap to cost them eighteen yards on the play I mean yeah that that'll impact your total yardage numbers. But when I look at these.

31:18.68
redwhitepodcast
Eight Yard run one yard run four yard pass Eight Yard sack incomplete incomplete punt like okay so all right thirteen yards of offense it still doesn't change the number.

31:26.30
James
Yeah, so you had a eight yard sack that dropped you back to five yards okay but that's 6 plays your defense your that's 6 play. Well I'm I'm saying no I'm saying that 6 plays your defense is quote unquote resting where they're not tired. Like we all assumed this was going to be a low scoring game. Nobody thought ncstate was going to go to Clemson and score 35 points like no one does that? no one does that. So if you tell me if I told you going in this game to Clemson scores 30 I mean there's not anybody picking in c state to win that game. I'm not I'm not picking Nc state to win if Clemson scored 30 in their place and they didn't turn the ball over mean like literally they didn't turn the ball over you didn't do anything special teams wise you didn't force a sack. They scored 30 points and I'm supposed to think nc state's offense should be good enough to overcome that. There's not offens in the league that's going to overcome that period. We can talk about how great wakes coordinator is and their coaches and all that thing all that stuff North Carolina I promise you they're not going there and scoring over 30 points without getting any help from their defense that's long drive after long drive after long drive that you've got to do against wait against Clemson. you're swimming up you're swimming upstream and like it's not It's not if we're thinking about this logically it's not logical to expect your offense to win a game where your defense gives up 30 points and as much as we want to say well yeah nc state had a garbage town touchdown Clemson's final drive. They threw the ball one time I think it was the first play to drive.

32:55.37
James
They ran it 8 times. It went down and scored get off the field. Yeah yeah, come okay, they completed 1 pass. Okay get off the field I mean how many times that all yeah well I mean all all I'm saying is get off the fields chipoint game.

32:57.38
redwhitepodcast
They completed one pass they threw it more than once I'm looking at the the box now I mean yeah, that game was over that game was over come on now like.

33:13.71
James
They got a ball back. Well how much time was left. They got the ball with seven forty left it was a 10 point game seven forty left it was a 10 point game. Get off the field.

33:14.44
redwhitepodcast
The 2 minutes yeah when your offense combines for was roughly sixty yards before that like I mean you're expecting them to.

33:27.62
James
Um, I'm just like I'm not expecting them to do anything but be a good defense I'm not expecting them to do anything but their job I mean like let's like that's like the Nc State offense at halftime you went down and scored.

33:31.88
redwhitepodcast
Get off the field and then trust your offense. Yeah.

33:42.84
James
What are you expecting the defense to do at that point get a stop.. It didn't happen I mean like again I'm given just literal reasons Why I think the defense deserves blame is I'm not just gonna blame it on a coordinator just because I don't think he's good or quarterback because I don't think he's playing. Well. This is stuff that like if it's any team you're gonna tell me is the defense's fault if it's any other game and I tell you these things you're gonna sit here and say yeah, that's probably on the defense they got to play better. Okay.

34:07.91
redwhitepodcast
No, not at all if I look at the box score then that will be my conclusion but watching the game. It wouldn't be I'm not looking at the Georgia Missouri game blaming that defense for giving up 20 so 22 right their offense couldn't do anything to to for that defense.

34:19.51
James
Really, you don't think Georgia you think George's defense should give up 22 to Missouri George's defense Georgia's defense I mean.

34:26.30
redwhitepodcast
That don't think it I think their offens should be able to score on was I think they should be able to score on him that they should be able to score him. It's not at their defense is why that game was close. Their offense was ineffective. Your defense is.

34:40.33
James
Voca I like I said I would believe I would believe that historically if I didn't read a but a drive chart that went field goal punt field goal touchdown touchdown Miss Field goal punt field goal punt touchdown that's Clemson's drive chart. Like literally there's very little resistance there at all from miney state the entire game if we're looking at it objectively and if we're and I'm not even putting in taking into consideration in he state's d offense I'm looking at what state defense did field goal punt field goal touchdown touchdown Miss Field goal punt field goal punt touchdownlimson punt 3 times in this game.

35:00.70
redwhitepodcast
But you gotta.

35:15.30
James
They scored on 7 drives like how is that good defense when you're supposed to be building your defense on third down stops and 3 and announcedunce Clemson was six of Clemson was 6 of 14 on third down, that's not.

35:23.74
redwhitepodcast
Defense it and shut him out I mean I it's it's the your expectation for the defense or my expectations from the offense your offense needs to be more competent right.

35:34.74
James
My expectation is I don't I don't have any expectations for the defense but to be good. This was not a good defensive performance.

35:39.75
redwhitepodcast
And they were and and they were good a ten thirteen game at halftime. It's is what you would want if I told you to be 1013 at halftime before this game started. You're taking that all day you were taking that all day every one of all day.

35:50.00
James
I would expect I would have expected no doubt but I also would have expected the 2 teams to combine for 15 minutes on 2 drives like that's the reason is that's the reason it is what it is.

35:59.51
redwhitepodcast
Um, I mean it is I it.

36:03.53
James
I mean we just talked about it I mean you only you only had four. You only had 3 didn't like it's like you're saying ncstate's offense wasn't good in the first half because they only had 10 points but they only had a ball 3 times. It's like they only had the ball 3 times like this is where possessions come into play why I say it's always so hard to shut down a team like wake forest. Because those games tend to be so many high possessions that it's just hard to keep a team from constantly never scoring when they're when you're going possession possession possession possession. But this game wasn't like that because they play fast and their defense gives up big plays too.

36:28.37
redwhitepodcast
Why are those games high possession.

36:35.10
redwhitepodcast
Okay, so this is this is the this is a game you would expect then our defense is not set up to give up big plays. We haven't been We've been very good against the big plays. You're gonna limit you're gonna limit them. You're trying to create havoc you're gonna make them draw. You're gonna make them long play sustain. You've said it on your podcast a hundred times nc stays defensive goal is to force you to meet to win the game to drive the field and not get that big play right? It's and that's exactly what they did they drug this game out. It was ten thirteen on half time

36:53.38
James
First month

37:03.40
James
Um, well I mean NCState came into this game ny state came into this game fifth in the country on third downs through 4 games fifth in the country on third down defense like I said C Clemson was 6 of 14 the previous 3 games. Yeah, not that.

37:19.45
redwhitepodcast
That's that's still pretty.

37:23.23
James
The previous 3 games. Um I'm trying to pull up their numbers here now because I mean nc state's been dominant I mean okay I'll just use I'll just use Texas tech I'll just use Texas tech I mean there. They've got a top 10 defense offense nationally I mean like yeah I could use Texas tech I almost like.

37:26.80
redwhitepodcast
Take out the jumps take out the jumps I'm not looking at Charleston Southern yeah Yeah

37:41.74
James
Their third down defense coming into this game. Texas tech was 2 of 12 on third down 2 of 12 Clemson was 6 of 14

37:52.46
redwhitepodcast
I Mean moderately better. Do they count the penalties in those conversions. Okay I mean we gave them. We gave them a few.

37:57.70
James
Um, accounts everything but I'm just I'm just saying like like all I'm saying is that's not the type of performance you need to have to win at Clemson. It's not.

38:05.59
redwhitepodcast
But it is like I I just told you ten thirteen a half time you're taking that you are before this game. There's every single one of us would say all right. That's 3 point game we're in it. We didn't lay an egg at their house. Yeah, exactly so your defense.

38:12.25
James
Are 100% okay yeah yeah I agree with you there I agree with you there I but but are you take are you taking 17 points in the second half for Colimson. Okay.

38:28.93
redwhitepodcast
But I'm also I'm also taking ah we we got to score more how many possessions do we have 1 4 6 so we had 7 possessions. Yes.

38:29.79
James
I mean I mean we state scored 10 in the state court 10 and the second half Clemson scored 17 like that's the whole thing. That's so crazy to me. That's the whole thing. That's so crazy to me is it's like state didn't play. This is why I think folks need to step back and understand it states. Has really became has really developed into a good team. Good program state didn't play well on either side of the ball Clemson played a clean air free game and you lost 30 to 20 I think about that you lost 30 to 20 where you're telling me the def offense was bad. I'm telling you the defense was bad and Clemson didn't give state shit didn't give them shit like didn't give him a didn't give him a pick 6 didn give a special teams touchdown didn't turn the ball over didn't turn the ball over was was almost 50% on third down and you lost by 10.

39:14.26
redwhitepodcast
They tried. Yeah.

39:25.55
James
In that environment and we're sitting here mad about whatever I mean like I Just think you lost a game personally that you probably were gonna lose regardless of how you played a You're probably gonna lose I mean no one No one had state going undefeated right.

39:34.43
redwhitepodcast
I yeah I'm not um, ah I'm disappointed I'm disappointed in the the offense didn't yeah I'm disappointed the offense was in that position ten thirteen a half time the defense showed to have some teeth.

39:44.24
James
And be yeah and that's where. I Wish they would had teeth right before to have.

39:50.67
redwhitepodcast
Clemson had to work for everything we did well that's a that's a different story I wish I wish we would have run into the kicker right? I mean there's all sorts of wishes I wish we got the fumble that was art that was actually fumble. You had sent possessions in second half and you and you didn't get squat your first 6 possessions you got 3 points.

40:02.31
James
I mean just got to make plays man. Yeah, you got 10 points you got to make plays.

40:09.65
redwhitepodcast
You first you got 3 points that's that garbage time touchdown was the game was over the down down 17

40:13.67
James
I don't know I mean like we we count we count stats for every we count here's the thing that's funny to me is like we don't want to count that garbage time touchdown but we count it when the other teams get it or we count it when state like like everybody was bitching about state what they did against Charleston Southern and and Texas tech in the second half they're not literally not trying on offense. Not trying but we're mad about what the second half stats look like right like it's it's like but we can't have it both ways we can't just count. We can't count those stats and be mad about them. But then be mad but in not want to count this garbage time touchdown right.

40:39.15
redwhitepodcast
You can, but you can so this is a this is the it does okay count. It doesn't matter you scored 10 points you had 7 you had 7 possessions that's not good enough you that is not good enough. There's there's the Officeense.

40:52.33
James
Um, 100% I agree

40:55.91
redwhitepodcast
Did nothing and this is the bigger problem. It's not necessarily just the offenses performances game. We've seen it coming all year it's the fact and this is where people have issues with Tim Beck and he is what he is. He's he's okay, but we didn't do anything to stress clumson out.

41:14.30
James
You.

41:14.61
redwhitepodcast
Right? I'm talking to your boy danford this morning and we're both saying the same thing. There's no sprintouts. There's no boots. There's no there's no run actions to you know move the pocket to give leary more time. The offices of line got absolutely destroyed and we did nothing to help him out. And it's just the insistence on doing the same thing and thinking you're good about good at it and banking on you know, 5 star execution or whatever how they say it and you're not you don't get it right? You become a team that comes and punches you in your mouth and you your offensive line folds and you get nothing.

41:47.21
James
You talk about you're talking about some stuff I think you need to be mad at the position coaches about much more than the coordinator.

41:48.42
redwhitepodcast
I Think that's that's just where people.

41:54.71
redwhitepodcast
Ah, the overall scheme. The office of line's been terrible. That's a different conversation. The overall scheme is not was not effective in in getting Clemson to hesitate their defensive line. They were getting who finished slim finish. They.

42:05.85
James
Um, well me here's the thing here's the thing at the end of the day at okay.

42:12.21
redwhitepodcast
Knew every screen pass that was coming. Not only did they knew that we knew that you could see it even even come on now even your own analyst danford says it every week we were too predictable with our schemes when we run out the 12 or 13 personnel.

42:16.41
James
Need stop taught listening to the commentators.

42:31.36
redwhitepodcast
We're going to run it. We're gonna run a screen. We're gonna do something along those lines The teams know it de clemps. You could watch the clempson defensive tackle multiple times with beating our running back to the spot on the screens. It could be could be something.

42:43.28
James
Is it just he's athletic like is it like because I'm um, ah um, ah, put a ah cause I'm a room like um'm I've just finished cutting the game up I'm gonna run some of these that Herb Street was telling us that Clemel was being tipped off. And you'll see that they really weren't being tipped off. They were getting to the back fit getting to the quarterback. They're just so athletic that they were retreading and getting back in the position and making play. But.

42:59.71
redwhitepodcast
Ah I agree like you you have some superior guys on the defensive line I get it they they're really good and that's where it comes in use. It. You've got to know that you've got to know your offense lines I got hold up, you've got to run run some boots run some spurouts do something to give your wide receivers 1 or two more seconds to get open to to make some place to get some space and that's my issue with Tim Beck is not I'm not going to get granular and say this this game right? because Clemson's an lead defense I get it but I don't think we're doing enough to get the most out of this team like they clearly know the offense isn't good enough.

43:18.12
James
Look man.

43:37.46
redwhitepodcast
We've been seeing it all year. The coaches have to know it I'm sure it's the same thing in practice if they don't then that's a bigger problem right? That's a.

43:40.80
James
I don't think they do no I mean well I mean I think I think they feel like most games they can score 30 points. They'll win is 30 points should be good enough if your defense is what it is. They're not out here trying to score 50 points and and okay, we'll see I mean we had the same argument a lot last year.

43:51.13
redwhitepodcast
I don't think they can get 30 points.

43:59.55
redwhitepodcast
And that's ah.

43:59.66
James
Like or in the first month of the c first month of the season we had the same argument and and all all Devin Leary did was lead the Acc and conference play in pretty much every statistical category with the bad coordinator I mean lift led the league in touchdowns fewest interceptions completion percentage cub rating and conference play led the league in all those stats with back. Look man. Um I'm not a 10 bit guy either. I mean there's a lot of stuff there that you can. We can say that states should be trying to do differently I agree with you there but when you step back and look at what they're doing what they have to work with right now like they have I see personnel issues just as much as I see scheme issues. You have nobody that stresses the team the defense from a receiver standpoint now whether that's talent whether that's coaching in terms of you not developing guys I've not been overly impressed with the development of inci state at receiver position either. You look at how you recruit it or you look at how you're coaching it. But.

44:41.40
redwhitepodcast
Bright.

44:49.37
redwhitepodcast
Agreed.

44:55.70
James
It's a simple game I mean you know this in basketball right? when we play basketball and we know a guy can't shoot. Do we worry about him shooting you understand what they' saying. So so if so if I'm playing in c state and out and they're they're rolling out Devin Carter key on the scene and they are Thomas.

45:01.74
redwhitepodcast
Right? No I agree. Yeah.

45:12.00
James
Am I worried about anybody running by me. No no, so you're asking your quarterback like go back and look at the first. The one bomb that leary hit the Devin Carter and a window he had to put that ball into he had safety over the top carter in a window. He drops it in the only place he could put it.

45:23.00
redwhitepodcast
Right.

45:31.20
James
You're asking your quarterback to have to make those throws you have nobody that stresses the defense after the catch we just talked about you had nobody that stresses the defense vertically who are you worried about after they catch the football is there. Anybody.

45:46.14
redwhitepodcast
I I agree and but you.

45:49.80
James
So So it's like so if I'm a coordinator What the hell am I supposed to do I got nobody that can I got nobody that can stress to stretch the field I got nobody I can run short stuff to who can turn short catches into into long place. It becomes a point where. You know? Yeah I'm right,. There's some things that we can. You can throw the kitchen sink it teams and try a bunch of different stuff schematically. But ultimately I Just don't think the pieces are there right now for Nc State to have a high level offense. So again, it turns back into how are you going to win football games.

46:19.38
redwhitepodcast
I think.

46:20.85
James
You're going to have to win football games by trying to get the 30 points and your defense went into game for you like the crazy thing about it is.

46:24.60
redwhitepodcast
I think we saw this last year too look we we saw this last year too it's the same the very same philosophy on offense where your first and second downs you're inefficient and then third downs. It's. Devin and a mecca bails out now. They don't have an a mecca to bail him out this year but you shouldn't you shouldn't be relying on that sort of offensive game plan when you don't have the the talent to run ah an effective offense I think you've got to do something different I think there's other ways you can stress defenses like Beck tried to break his tendencies. This. In this game right in early in the first half I think the the touchdown to cbro is 12 personnel but then in the second half you go right? back to it. You go right? back to what you're good at and Clemson was all over it and they were. They're ineffective and I I don't think they there if they know if they see this in practice.

47:06.94
James
Um.

47:17.58
redwhitepodcast
Right? That's your talent is deficient enough then to to me then that's there's a bigger holistic issue. If you're just going to roll out the same thing and say all right? Well, we're gonna we're gonna score 30 and we're gonna beat most of the teams in the league I get that works. It's going to save your job You're gonna make your four million a year that's not getting you to the next level. That's not doing enough at this in the college age an offense has to stress. Ah, defense wake forest is not superior to talent. They don't have better talent than us. They have some good wide receivers I get it. Yeah, they get yeah creep. That's what just said they have better receivers there all their offense. What the reason it's effective is because it stresses the safeties right? They run that mesh. They make you commit if you commit they throw it over top That's what you need to do.

47:47.56
James
They got better receivers than Inc State right now. Yep, they got better receivers in Nc State right now. Yeah.

48:01.95
James
Um.

48:04.73
redwhitepodcast
In today's college ah offenses if unless you have Alabama Talent you're not going to be effective if you don't do something different. You're not going to be effective rolling out an Nfl offense where we're just going to do this better than you that just doesn't work. You've got to establish some sort of thing and like you just said we don't have. The playmakers so I want us to do something different but we're not, we're just banging our head against the walls and that's why state fans are so frustrated with the offense. You just see it that there's no flow There's nothing to it I don't.

48:32.49
James
Well I mean like I I can't I can't you know I mean I can't control what people you know, get upset with I think nc state plays complimentary football right? or wrong I think they play their offense around their defense and their defense around their ah offense I think there's a reason why when they get up. 14 points at half time you can go ahead and count on them running the football in the second half whether we like it or not and then we turn around and look and then we turn her right? and then we turn around and look at the offense the numbers and we're like well what's wrong with the offense. Well no shit, you ran the ball 60% of the time the second half the other team knew you were going to and you're not a good running team anyways. But you won the game.

48:53.86
redwhitepodcast
It's awful. Is it awful philosophy. 3

49:08.44
James
Right? Like we can look at this strategy and be how mad we want to be about it over the last seven years or so that they've been doing it what if they lost 1 game doing this and over that stretch the wake forest game in 2017 or 20181 game. So whether we like it or not and I'm not saying I like it I'm just pointed out whether we like it or not. They're Goingnna continue to do it because they're winning games doing it that way and it look you look at it. You look? Yeah well I mean you beat Clemson I mean you've beaten Clemson before you know like the the crazy thing about it is as bad as the offense play this year I mean scoring 20 points would have once 2016.

49:26.86
redwhitepodcast
I I get it. You could win games against Inferior Talent or inferior teams.

49:41.60
redwhitepodcast
Yeah, when no one last year regulation. Okay I mean yeah.

49:43.75
James
20 points with a one last year's game in regulation crazy it's crazy right I mean I mean because because of what happened because the defense because the defense actually showed up those 2 games is it worth c circle back to like. The defense didn't show up to the level it needed to to win this game on on Saturday and and you're right, there's that there's issues that you that state has to try and figure out offensively I think they miss Trent Pinnix I think Trent pinnis is the 1 player on their offense right now at wide receiver a tight end that I feel like every time he goes into formation. He has a mismatch. I mean Trent Pendix runs a 4 4 at two hundred and thirty pounds and it you can tell it by looking at his yards after catch numbers when he plays he's the only guy that I think that they're playing in the rotation right now I'm tired of asking for Julian Gray and Anthony Smith they're not playing those guys. There's no point asking about it anymore. But the only guy that when he comes up.

50:35.74
redwhitepodcast
Um, was all that's the problem right? That's that's that's the problem right.

50:41.10
James
Ah, you're you're preaching to the choir on that. But I'm done asking for it like I'm not I'm not. They're gonna do what they're gonna do whatever and if it ultimately gets them fired. It gets them fired that's on them. You know like we I told you man like I'm not trying to say the coaches being great or anything I'll critique. What I think the CCro coaching does wrong.

50:52.30
redwhitepodcast
It's.

50:59.12
James
Go look at the Rick's receiver recruiting says 2019 they've not landed one single difference maker since 2019 you tell me they've landed 4 stars and Julian Gray import they've they've they've landed 4 stars in June but I can't say the schemes played a role because we've seen a meca mezzie.

51:02.68
redwhitepodcast
What perfect why? Why is that I think this I think the scheme plays a part I think. I think it does how many how many guys want to be a Mecko Mezzy right how many guys want to play in this offense where you're getting. You're bailing out on third down Devin Carter gets a game where he gets 20 snaps in 1 target like if I'm recruiting against that if I'm wake forest I'm recruiting Wesley Grimes

51:17.94
James
We've seen a Mecca Mezzy be good.

51:22.46
James
What? what? Well here's the thing first.

51:29.90
James
Well I mean but that but but you but to me to me that's not to me that's not scheme as much as how you use your receivers the difference between wake farce and nc state wake forest plays 3 receivers the entire game NC state tries to play 6 or 7

51:31.31
redwhitepodcast
I Got you all day because I'm just going to drop these numbers on you like who wants to play in this ah offense.

51:41.88
redwhitepodcast
Right.

51:47.49
James
Inc State you go look at the usage numbers for the running backs and tight ends in the past game compared to wake forest wake force done door to their tight ends doesn't throw to their running backs. Those are targets that wakes giving to receivers now you can you can use your offense in a variety of ways. Carrie Angelo was really good at insc state tremp pinnix and and Chris Tooole

51:49.22
redwhitepodcast
Right? right.

52:04.65
James
Ah, big reason down to stress last year Devin Leary was really good Tooal Loopennix became involved. Um I think to I think they ended the year with 5 touchdown catches last four games and that's going to your tight ends a inys in C States rivalgerry iny state spreads the ball around differently than wake forest.

52:16.31
redwhitepodcast
Tootle's not been good. This.

52:23.41
James
But my point in receiver is you've you've had 4 recruiting classes where you've not developed anybody and you have nobody right now as a starter or major contributor for you outside of key on the same and I mean I'm not trying to bang on key on the same. He's a good player.

52:28.32
redwhitepodcast
Agreed.

52:41.65
James
I Think he's a slot Receiver they're trying to play outside for some reason you know you you can't replace a Mecca Mezzy with key on the scene.

52:42.97
redwhitepodcast
I mean porter rooks and Julian Grayer to port rooks and Julian Gray are to your highestest rated offensive recruits in a long time and I get rooks is playing behind theer. But if you're gonna force Keyon in the game I'm rather forcing porter rooks in the game right? I mean there's. There's gotta to be something. There's something that is I think this all plays plays a part of why they can't lay in that big wide receiver I just don't think the offense in this again coming back to it. Defense gave up 200 less yards and they did the week before for a clempson I don't think the offense is good enough is not interesting enough.

53:16.43
James
Um, what? um.

53:21.16
redwhitepodcast
To land those guys and and if you don't have those guys you got to do something else I've seen other offenses do things differently in order to do that like in order to stress a defense in order to score points.

53:25.73
James
Well.

53:32.30
James
Ah, yeah, we talked I just talked about it last year I mean like I said last year Devon leer was the best quarterback in the Acc and reg in the conference play his best quarterback 100% and and that and all I'm saying is.

53:36.54
redwhitepodcast
Last year was was last year was very similar less year is very similar to this. They had the all offense was inefficient on first and second downs. Yeah.

53:50.20
James
All I'm saying is let's see how the season plays out. It was so bad like I said your quarterback ended up the best quarterback in conference play.

53:57.82
redwhitepodcast
They're they're gonna play out. They're goods gonna play out fine because I don't think the team rest the teams are talented right? But if you were trying to beat clumps. You're trying to win the atlantic their goal Ac championship atlantic division championship. You're gonna have a hard time doing that with an offense that is. Predicated on running tight ends that are terrible or you know just being predictable or not stressing defense like the tide ends this year have been awful. We keep rolling them out. They've been bad in past protection they've been bad in run blocking and we're expecting Cole Cook to run to walk back through the doors and you know block for somebody.

54:14.37
James
But.

54:30.68
redwhitepodcast
I Don't understand what the office is doing.

54:31.70
James
um um I agree I agree with you but like I said I mean you're talking about having to win 1 game in a given year and that game is Clemson. You've got to win 1 game. You're not beating Clemson.

54:39.48
redwhitepodcast
I hope.

54:44.66
James
I don't care who you could. We can go and pull it up and look at the last five years clem in in all of Clemson's losses I guarantee I'll bet you anything I haven't never looked at this guarantee you and that they did not lose. They did not lose a single game where they didn't turn the ball over I guarantee if you go and look at who they lost to over the last ten years every single one of those games they had turnovers in guarantee I mean yeah I mean it did it. It didn't play out that way I agree with you that that that should have been a touchback and I would have love for Nc state to get the ball at the 20 and you're still leading ten six but it didn't play out that way.

55:02.27
redwhitepodcast
In the shit of this game. So I mean I get it's probably true.

55:18.13
redwhitepodcast
Right.

55:20.52
James
They got they scored the touchdown I'm I'm with you like I thought that was a fumble it did. It wasn't overturned for whatever reason they scored all I'm saying is you're not beating Clemson regardless of what we say about state's office. You're not beating Clemson if they don't help you out at their place. It's not happening. It's not happening because their defense is too good for you to go and have 6 drives where you got to go down and score against full fields touchdowns or field goals. That's essentially what we're asking state to do and yeah and I don't think state's offense was great by any means they weren't even really good in this game. But. To have a chance to win this game. It wouldll be I I would needed to see more from the off from the defense I and maybe might maybe I've just worked on it man like I I told you last year I think coming out of the wake forest game I was more disappointed in the offense than the defense and state scored 42 in that game. But I felt like they needed to score more in that game. That's why I'm saying like I'm not looking at it like um, it's 1 word. It's just going into each specific game. What are my expectations for based on the opponent and I get I had Clemson scorering 18 points in this game I didn't think there was any way ncstate would win. This game is Klimson scored 30 however, they got to 30 and to not turn them over to not get a sack I mean I can't tell you I thought state lost this game because of the offense I just can't I mean I can't.

56:48.33
redwhitepodcast
Yes, yeah I think our expectations for what we want out of the offense and defense are different I Just don't think you're going to get a defense that is going to shut anybody down you know for the most part.

56:56.66
James
Um, but last year you held him to 14 and 20 and 2016 like I said in 2016 you held him this to 17

57:02.29
redwhitepodcast
And for the most part. Oh they're off again. Their offense was inexplicably bad last year DJ you was hundred pounds heavier you know yeah

57:12.10
James
And for in in in a single game and you were creat. You were creating havoc for turnovers pick 6 for touchdown Mike Stevens you need and the crazy thing about is we don't look at it this way. But if you step back and look at that game you needed all of that just to go to overtime. Right? Like just the hat well or or you can say just to have bamard in a position to win the game for you. He didn't do it but you needed all of that to happen just to be in that position whereas this year you didn't get any of that. The offense. You're telling me the offense wasn't good which I agree with. I'm telling you the defense wasn't good which you may or may not agree with I don't think you agree with me but still either way you need it all that you lost 30 to 2030 to 20 I mean like.

57:58.13
redwhitepodcast
The the defense was good enough and that's where again I got to half time and I'm like damn you know we gave them one at the end of halftime but they were good enough they that we go on the road and you get that kind of performance out of your defense I I feel good like we got a chance for i.

58:13.50
James
but ah but again like I said I told you and I felt differently just because like I said I knew it was a possession deal I did not feel good about the defense to that point and even if they only had 13 points I'm sitting here telling myself I'm looking at it and saying damn Clemson scored on 3 out of their 4 drives hey that's not good to me even though they've only got 13 points they scored on 3 out of their 4 drives and they scored it they had a a 75 year drive that they went over in a minute right before halftime to me that's not good defense like so yeah, 13 points sounds good on the surface. But. That was all because they only had 4 possessions in the first half you know it's the same reason why I actually felt state's offens was playing good even though they only had 10 points because they scored on 2 of 3 possessions. They scored on 2 of 3 possessions hadn't had a turnover yet but they only had 10 points. So. I think maybe it's just the way we look at it like I didn't think the offense I don't the even off was playing well in the first half, but it was only 10 points because they had long drives and nc state defense can get off the field to give em more possessions I don't know really what we expected the offense to do in the first half I really don't like in the first half. You had a long plate. It went a long drive that when 8 minutes ended in the field goal. You had a 3 and out which is a stop fine, whatever and then you got the ball went down and scored a touchdown in 4 minutes hey I don't really know what else we could. We could have expected the offense to do in the first half and they had 10 points.

59:36.00
redwhitepodcast
I think you go back to you know you you want to pull back 2016 I'll pull up 20177 possessions halftime scores 20 on 17 like that's a lot of points all right. We didn't get there to this point we're at 1013 it was a slug fest the kick and field goals. That is that's that's where I felt the defense played. Well yeah at home.

59:57.31
James
Yeah, no, you yeah you taught about it. The twenty thirteen game at home. yeah yeah um yeah I mean like yeah I mean we have Ryan Finley that year at home I mean like I said I already told you I thought stay would won this game at home I think the offens would have been better home this weekend I do um I mean what would do this I do this do this do this.

01:00:10.93
redwhitepodcast
Dophins would have been better think the dolphins is what it is and that's my per um yeah, they got smoke that came right.

01:00:15.33
James
Go to 2018 Ryan Finley is a senior they went and play they went and play that Clemson in 2018 right yeah Finley had Harmon you had Reggie Gias be that team was supposed to be really good I don't remember what it was but that who o.

01:00:20.64
redwhitepodcast
Yeah.

01:00:27.75
redwhitepodcast
Fifty Fifty five ten or something right? Oh no, that was ah, let me see it's us 41 seven yeah

01:00:33.76
James
40 one 7 what did drink do that night. Yeah I mean buzzy 20 not 2018 was his last year I thought

01:00:40.70
redwhitepodcast
He was. He was an app at that night wouldn't he yeah I don't 20 team was the cohoes was it I don't remember.

01:00:50.92
James
No, that was 19 No the 18 was this year was eighteen was a year they won 9 games yeah 18 they won 9 games that year then went down to Clemson and yeah, they went they went down to Clemson that year they were undefeated 5 and oh.

01:01:01.43
redwhitepodcast
I'm a terrible historian I don't remember anything I canber remember last week so

01:01:08.82
James
Lost forty one seven came back the next week lost that Syracuse 50 42 but I mean forty one seven down there at Clemson like like I as Ryan Finley Kelvin Harmon the great drink wits.

01:01:09.80
redwhitepodcast
Yeah.

01:01:22.90
redwhitepodcast
Yeah, that's a that's a that was a different cloud was peak glimpsempson travis c tn Trevor Lawrence you know, like again I think any bloody going into this games takes 1013 at half time and be like that's good. Let's go. Um I'll roll with that the second half and.

01:01:27.70
James
I'm jet I'm just saying I'm just so just saying like.

01:01:38.77
James
How I do to stay scored 10 points in each half I mean like I said I don't think 20 points is good enough I've already said that I don't think the offense I got I thought iny state would have needed scored 20 points to win this more than 20 points to win this game but I didn't have to winning this game scoring over 30

01:01:40.31
redwhitepodcast
You would expect you expect to get more. Yeah.

01:01:57.79
James
Especially if Clemson's offense played as clean of a game as they did and that's kind of where we keep going back to is that you didn't get any help offensively like you normally do didn't get any help at all like no, you had what 1 short field that got the bought of 48 I mean yeah.

01:02:12.69
redwhitepodcast
Yeah, no idea sounds about right.

01:02:17.72
James
Like I just again, we can all we can and and I and I feel like I can say I will I put this game more on the defense and still have blame for back in the offense from a big picture standpoint like if we want to argue about Beck in the offense and all that it fine. I just don't think it's indicative of this specific game I think this game was more on your defense not playing up and it I'm child promise you if you go ask Tony Gibson and Dave Don you know without mikes or whatever they would tell you they don't think that unit played well at night they'll tell you now.

01:02:50.30
redwhitepodcast
I think yeah I mean I get it. They're they're not they didn't play perfect right? They didn't play a game I drake missed some assignments I think pay Payton miss some assignments like there were some. There was definitely some misses in there.

01:02:58.69
James
Like I Just don't even think they were good.

01:03:06.88
James
I mean you let dj go 75 for 2 touchdowns on the ground you let youngle get seventy five and two scores on the ground.

01:03:08.23
redwhitepodcast
I Think we gave some gifts with the Pis. So What now. Yeah, and then you only get 34 from your your running backs I mean like we can go all day with your you know with stats like if the all fits.

01:03:20.75
James
100% that 100% um but I'm telling you why they didn't play well that's like in 20 that's like in 2021 Ny state out games clums of almost fifty yards rushing

01:03:35.81
James
The defense gave the defense gave you the chance to win that game people want it like that and then maybe that's where we differ at like people want to look at 2021 and say man Devon Leary won that game forennzy state devol le is really good. You had 14 points at the end of regulation. You won that game because your defense Hill Clemson to 14 points I oh hey.

01:03:53.48
redwhitepodcast
And Clemson's offense is really bad like it's hard to it's so hard to compare those right that this was a historically bad glimpsemson offense last year well given all right historically in their last fifteen years right this is one of their worst offices other than Kelly Bryant year

01:04:02.38
James
I don't think historically bad I mean like I don't know what they finished I mean I I mean relative relative to Clemson relative to Clemson Shore but I'm saying they still last year I mean like I mean hell they scored 48 against wake.

01:04:13.40
redwhitepodcast
Yes, right.

01:04:20.62
James
Scored 30 against Louisville 30 against Florida state I mean like they still had games or they put up numbers I like I don't think I don't know like like I said I mean to hold them to 14 points I just think I think.

01:04:27.99
redwhitepodcast
Yeah, it it.

01:04:36.13
redwhitepodcast
Ah, this is where we're gonna dis this is where we diverge right? This is where we disagree I expect more from the offense is 2022. You've got enough players. You ran a damn heisman campaign for your quarterback and you can't get anything going. You can't do anything offensively. You've got. Empty drives empty possessions and at some point your defense is gonna break just it's just how it is these things I and I don't know holding them to field goals if you could hold c clempson to field goals. That's a win. Right? you hold 18 to field goals. That's a win.

01:04:56.31
James
And I mean they broke all game. They broke all game. There wasn't a point there literally wasn't a point I like I know see and that's where I differ at like I do I mean I think if you hold I think if you like. I give it cut you qcon right? before the half you throw if you throw an interception you kind gets the ball at 20 and you hold him to a field goal. That's a win but like when Clemson goes 13 play seventy two yards and has the ball for 7 minutes and they get a field goal is that really a win I mean like.

01:05:28.92
redwhitepodcast
Yes.

01:05:31.72
James
You gave them 7 minutes time of possession. They held the ball 13 plays they get they converted three third downs when it. Yeah, you finally got a stop and they made a field goal but you gave up points like I don't like to me that's not a win like yeah you held them to a field goal.

01:05:41.18
redwhitepodcast
When you're the underdog playing on the road. That's a win when you're the underdog played on a road that's a win you're playing against constantine.

01:05:47.56
James
Like I said I think that's where we go different I think that's where we differ at in terms of Ray Expectations I read you to drive charts before man like field goal punt field goal touchdown touchdown field goal punt field goal punt touchdown that to me is a lot of scoring for Clemson has a lot of scoring. Very few stops and a lot of scoring and I just don't understand when when when ncstates defense is doing that what we expect nc state defense offense to do yes I would have been awesome to go to that place match it and win that game thirty five thirty that would have been awesome.

01:06:23.98
redwhitepodcast
It's more realistic than expecting to shut him out. That's that's or to shut him down I'm not saying shut him out I know? yeah.

01:06:24.59
James
I just don't know how ri I'm not but that's where we differ atd. Yeah I mean like I don't expect state to shut Clemson out or shut him down but 30 points like you you mean? do you? you really think Nc State should be able to go to Clemson and win that game with Clemson's offense scorering 30 and not turning the ball over.

01:06:40.80
redwhitepodcast
I Think it was it was within reach and you had the possessions you had the ball you had the possessions you had a chance to to get ahead on them and make them chase points and we didn't We didn't do it.

01:06:46.10
James
Ah, okay.

01:06:52.96
James
100% we did we you you were ahead going in a halftime and your defense and your defense can get a stop. You had exactly what you wanted to do you were up 106 had just scored. We're getting a ball coming out to start the third quarter with a chance to build on your lead. Ah, your defense gives up a seventy five yard drive in a minute a I don't know what we keep circling back to this I'm not giving you just stats I'm telling you literally what happened I mean I don't think there's any way or there's going there I don't think there's a team in in the acc that's going to go to Clemson. Not create a turnover and win a game by scoring over 30 points I don't think it's gonna happen. I don't think it's gonna happen well I mean I mean they've got 4 ranked. They've got 4 ranked teams in the league right now I mean like I mean I guess what I mean what league what league is good like just scc.

01:07:35.00
redwhitepodcast
Of course because nobody in the league is any good I Mean that's a different story. Nobody all right? None of them are none of them are good enough none um are good enough. Yeah, that's a different conversation.

01:07:47.56
James
What league's good. Ah I mean hell Missouri just went you George is just went to missourian scored 19 or 22 whatever the hell it was I don't know if they're doing it I don't know if George is going to Clemson is scoring 30 plus I mean last year what was the score to Georgia Clemson game 103

01:08:02.21
redwhitepodcast
Georgia held Missouri Georgia held Missouri to 5 field goals and won that game Georgia held Missouri to 5 field goals I get it Georgia held Missouri to 5 field goals this year that's a good defense. That's good enough. Yeah, that's good enough and we.

01:08:08.15
James
Ten three Georgia Clemson last year was ten three and I'm just saying yeah 100% but but but like I said you go to Clemson if you go if Georgia's offense goes to Clemson.

01:08:22.70
redwhitepodcast
We were not good.

01:08:26.21
James
And their defense does not force a turnover and Clemson scores 30 points Georgia is not winning that football game. They're not winning it. That's what happened in this game. That's what happened.

01:08:30.93
redwhitepodcast
Well of course like I mean if that.

01:08:39.21
redwhitepodcast
You're you I think you're being generous I think your giftf you're giving them I think your box your box go reading right? I think this is this is it like.

01:08:46.76
James
Who am I being generous for not I'm not at I'm not at all man I'm looking at the score I'm looking at the game like if I want to take out the box score reading I'm just talking drives like I'm not even looking at stats. Um I've read you every single drive Clemson had in this game. They scored on 70% of their drives that's taking stats in you and yardage and all that out of it 70% of their drives. They scored points on.

01:09:14.80
redwhitepodcast
Again, Field goals ah give them give them a field goal I'll take I'll take a field goal against them like you're on the road. How many times you hear people say it if you how many times you hear it people say you hold the field goals right? That's a win.

01:09:18.70
James
And 3 field goals 3 touchdowns that 3 field goals 3 touchdowns.

01:09:27.46
James
I agree. Yeah well I don't lot him listening to man what man you know man come on. We know we got to have the analyst guys on mute like did you did you help kiurt hertry put his sheet together and Reese and Chris Fowler like their little you know how they don't really know shit about state right? here's the thing I think hilarious about commentators. They don't know shit about state they meet with him on thursday.

01:09:28.59
redwhitepodcast
This they say every broadcast every analyst will say the same thing.

01:09:41.12
redwhitepodcast
Of course, of course.

01:09:47.39
James
They have this big sheet. They fill out with little shit that they read and then they get into the game and act like they know a lot about state like just mute those guys man they don't really know anything. No, they don't They don't know anything they didn't even know they were looking at the fumble hit the goal line they were talking about his knee being they they were talking about if he if he had scored or not. They didn't literally they li huh.

01:09:53.45
redwhitepodcast
Yeah, but they know ah they know enough about football right? They know enough about football.

01:10:00.76
redwhitepodcast
They weren't looking at the fumble though they weren't looking at the fumble they weren't looking at the fumble. No, they weren't they were looking at but they were no. They were not That's the difference. They weren't looking at the fumble they looked at the where the ball was when he went down they didn't look at the fumble. They didn't look at possession. That's why.

01:10:06.12
James
Oh yeah, they were looking at it. Yeah, they were they looked at it. They literally.

01:10:19.15
James
Okay, so so so so so let me ask you this So a good commentator should they should they be pointing that out. Okay were they pointing it out. Yeah yeah, nobody was pointed out man. No shit they um they all need a list of those guys man.

01:10:19.62
redwhitepodcast
That's why I did get review. Yeah, absolutely no, nobody will even the damn the rules expert wasn't it doesn't mean they don't know football. It doesn't mean they don't know football.

01:10:36.81
James
I I'm telling youll listen to Danford Danford know way talking why you know what you're talking about listen us. Don't don't listen the don't listen to these guys I dude I am I am 100% with y'all on nc state's ah offense. There are certain things.

01:10:40.51
redwhitepodcast
Um, I'll read the conversation daner and I had he just said they're too to predictable. Yeah Danford will tell you the same thing.

01:10:53.73
James
Like I don't know. Maybe it's that you'd call me a tim back guy a I feel by I feel the offense and the defense their shit I would change there' shit I would change on the defense I mean it here here one 100% but would you not change stuff on the defense too.

01:11:02.70
redwhitepodcast
I think there's a lot more shit to change on the offense that. I mean yeah, you want you get you want to get more pressure. No I like Tony Gibson because he play I think it's he plays like you're the under dog. He plays like you don't have.

01:11:12.63
James
Okay, do you do you want to get rid. Do you want to get rid of to of Tony Gibson no right I mean like i.

01:11:27.53
redwhitepodcast
The elite talent right? And that's what this aggressive nature to be disruptive now I get they didn't get them but they had 2 picks they should have had and they had a fumble they should have had right? That's the should have could have would have the defense was good enough. It was creating those plays now they didn't get pressure.

01:11:38.30
James
Um, do yeah.

01:11:42.74
redwhitepodcast
They dropped 8 a lot right? There's a lot of that. There's a lot of stuff going on there that we need a and real edge rushers. There's some things that we can identify but the.

01:11:47.70
James
100% I mean like yeah I just like I said I mean I'm keeping it real simple with you and you still had an answer me I'm keeping it real simple if a team scores 30 and you don't turn the ball if Clemson scores 30 and they don't turn the ball over. Are you going there and winning that game.

01:12:04.60
redwhitepodcast
That's such a ridiculous question though, of course.

01:12:06.56
James
Why it it just happened I mean we're and we're looking to blame the offense. So if in that case, if you're looking to blame the offense then you're telling me NCState's office should scored over 30 in this game.

01:12:16.32
redwhitepodcast
They could have they absolutely could have they could have gotten to the point it was 23 13 for a while there clempson scores are touchdown late to give them 30 right? It like the score that games 20 through 13 Ah we can cancel out both of the last 2 touchdowns.

01:12:28.56
James
Um, yeah.

01:12:31.20
James
Right.

01:12:33.12
redwhitepodcast
That's 23 points you are very much in that game to win that game. You're very much there you had all of the opportunities.

01:12:37.49
James
Note I mean I thought state with I thought was 7 minutes 30 seconds left I'm sitting here thinking states in this game 7 minutes and 40 seconds left states in this game is a 23 13 game Clemson's got the ball right.

01:12:48.80
redwhitepodcast
And your fifth year senior senior snaps it into the guy's chest right? like.

01:12:54.40
James
And Clemson gets the ball at the forty Two yard line on a 4 and it what was that was fourth down to right? So who knows you have converted it anyways. But you you're still in the game. You're you're you're still in the game and then and then what what this and then what does the defense. Do.

01:12:58.86
redwhitepodcast
That's your offense. Yeah fourth and thirteen after Shitty offensive drive. Ah, that's exactly it like yeah and you gave it to it like you gave you gave it up because your offense couldn move the ball.

01:13:13.10
James
You go you go forward and you go four and a half minutes on defense Clemson goes 9 place Fifty Eight yards score touchdown that's ball game that's ball game I mean like but but I agree at 7 minutes 40 seconds left you're down 10 you get if you can get a hold there. Maybe you get the ball back. You can work a little magic like you did against carolina who knows.

01:13:31.44
redwhitepodcast
Hits yeah pits his personal foul. Ah his targeting call was was big. 1 than that drive or that hurts.

01:13:31.50
James
I mean your state was dead in the ward against Carolina.

01:13:40.17
James
Yep now I agree and then and then you do get the third and 10 and I don't know what Peyton Wilson was doing with deanggoe running around him for a touchdown but instead of forcing a field goal. You give up a touchdown there like I mean I love n c states defense man and you're rarely going to see me put any blame on them seriously rarely.

01:13:44.86
redwhitepodcast
Um, yeah.

01:13:57.98
James
This game was on it that like this game was on them.

01:13:59.21
redwhitepodcast
I Think the defense gave him a chance and I don't think the offphins gave a chance I think that's where we're gonna diverge and we'll probably leave it that we you and I don't agree on this is is fine but this is why it's It's a fun. It's a good conversation.

01:14:08.57
James
Yeah I mean like I'm I'm interested to see the poll. well well I'm already tell you your polls gonna probably be like 90% offense like I mean I expect yeah I expect everybody to be like although this the offense because they can't step back and actually look at what really happened they they just want to blame.

01:14:14.57
redwhitepodcast
I Know it is I know it is I knew it was want to put it out there.

01:14:27.83
James
The offense but like again, there's not a single stat defensively that made me feel good. Not one single stat made me feel good. Good about NC statef defense in this game. Not one stat about 1 What is it what it? Yeah I told you.

01:14:38.11
redwhitepodcast
250 votes 250 votes 90% um are the offense.

01:14:44.63
James
90% yeah it makes sense man I mean like you know we we want to we want Nc state to score every possession I mean that that he asked that that's the outcome I mean d here here's one about the fer the a the very first one I read.

01:14:49.47
redwhitepodcast
I want this course I want to get some touchdowns I want know lot not look deficient in Aneic like they they they look toothless.

01:15:01.73
James
Defense was tired because the offense had like 103 and outce n c state in this game had 1 2 3 4 3 and Ounce Clemson had 1 2 3 3 and announcedunce too many 3 and announced stuff. State had four Clemson had state had four Clemson had 3

01:15:12.82
redwhitepodcast
In the 6 and out and 5 and out. Yeah.

01:15:19.76
James
I mean the div if the defense was tired. The defense was tired because the defense couldn't get off the damn field. That's why the defense was tired I mean if the defense was tired what 100% I mean 6 minute

01:15:23.63
redwhitepodcast
That defense did not make enough place what we won't disagree defense not make a play enough places. The offense didn't make any place offens didn't make any place.

01:15:35.10
James
I mean like like I said I mean offense had an 8 minute drive I thought dev leary made a hell of a play on third to first third now I a hell of a play I thought he made a hell of a play throwing the ball to Devin Carter down the sideline I mean you come out, you come out the first game you come out the first game. The first drive.

01:15:40.20
redwhitepodcast
Ah, yeah, that was that was his big time throw that. Yeah, there's there's 2 for 73 there's 2 of 73

01:15:55.00
James
And you score I like I said I don't really know what the expectations were fornzy states offense and that's probably where we different I didn't expect ny state to go down there and score 30 points in this game I didn't um.

01:16:03.77
redwhitepodcast
They should have scored 24 right that I mean I expect them to score at least 24 they're good enough to do that. They have enough players. Yeah right.

01:16:09.58
James
No 100% I had state score in 24 I don station a score 24 and then you start factor in if you get something from your defense you get a short field. You get a a a defensive touchdown. You get a special teams play something like that they can help you out fine. But but like you go through this this. Um, series over the last whatever amount of years that we this is supposed to be competitive. This hadn't been a high scoring series and a lot of these really really competitive games. You only had one that was a 38 31 game in in.

01:16:38.44
redwhitepodcast
Ah, here's a question for you here's a question for this is this is somebody asked on that poll could the defense have played better? Yes, however, the offense has been off all year James says that that's how they've been game planning. The d carry the team in the o managed game flow not saying James is wrong. Question is why do they choose to play that way on offense.

01:16:58.65
James
I think it I think they feel it gives them the best chance to win and I'm not saying states is trying to I think what state does from a game playing standpoint I think in the first half they try and play really aggressive as aggressive as they can to score points and build a lead you go and look at East Carolina game I think ncstate had 22 passes at half time 12 runs that's an aggressive mindset. Devin Leary had one hundred and sixty yards pass and 1 touchdown state was up 2 scores if they go in a half time up 2 scores with this defense. They're gonna now flip it into a run 4 minute type offense mode whether we like it or not that's what I mean by manage game flow and.

01:17:32.92
redwhitepodcast
Yeah.

01:17:36.30
James
It's been wildly. It's been successful for him I don't agree with it I would still keep trying to score points. But you know what? they'll sit here and say to you is in 2018 when they lost the wake forest n c state miss 2 forth downs in that game being aggressive. And miss tooth they went for it on fourth down twice in the last seven minutes of that game with a lead quote unquote being aggressive didn't get either 1 of them gave way to wake an opportunity to get back in that game. Did you go to East Carolinas statess up to what is it? 201421 14 and they come out on second and 10 and they have leary throat a ball and ecu intercepts it gets the ball and returns it to the twenty Five Yard line get a short field I didn't go down and ti game if you just run run run and punt. There is ecu going eighty yards and scoring on this defense probably not. But that's why I think that's.

01:18:23.44
redwhitepodcast
I mean you just told me that Clemson could.

01:18:28.59
James
100% that's why I think they play that way.

01:18:29.58
redwhitepodcast
And I think that's what costs them has cost them games in the past right? you like you said the wake forest game like the wake forest game the Miami game last year there's been a couple games where you I don't think we're aggressive enough even in the first half right they're not

01:18:33.68
James
Um, which games yeah are.

01:18:47.78
redwhitepodcast
They're not throwing vertical in this is things that we've talked about and you've said the same thing in your podcast. They're not doing these things enough. They're not letting Devin Leary sling it more than he should like I mean we're probably getting all way off in the left field here I just I think the overall offensive philosophy has not been.

01:18:53.61
James
Um.

01:19:06.35
redwhitepodcast
Strong enough, right? It's just not aggressive enough. It's it's almost to the point where it's it's arrogant to the point where you think you're better than they are. You are that you can hold a 14 point lead and that works against most teams in this leaks I think most teams just league are bad. You're gonna play good offensive teams and it's gonna hurt you it it almost hurt them in against. Carolina last year right? if that last 2 minutes of just absolute miracles didn't happen. It would be a different conversation. But you again you you've play conservative thinking your defense is going to do it and it just yeah I don't know. Yeah.

01:19:32.69
James
Yeah I mean like like I've never said I don't I don't agree with the philosophy either I'm just telling you I think they do it like I'm not saying I agree with it and and kind of answer what he mean not.

01:19:44.22
redwhitepodcast
Right? And that's yeah, that's where people have a big problem.

01:19:48.43
James
But but but the proofs the pudding when when I ask people behind the scenes about it. They say well, there's only been 1 game. We've lost doing clan this way I mean like what do you? What do you say to that like okay well I mean like that if if that's what they continue to if they continue to win doing it.

01:19:53.55
redwhitepodcast
Yeah.

01:20:06.99
James
I don't see why they're going to change it now I think the key is again getting up at half time like having a leaves fight like go to no like Boston college last year is a perfect example when n see state won that game. What was it? um.

01:20:23.42
James
Night I know what 1913 wasn't Nc State Boston College and she stay won that game 30 three 7 at boston college last year they weren't really good offensively in that game right? I mean Devin Leary in that game. He threw the ball.

01:20:32.18
redwhitepodcast
Um, yeah.

01:20:41.91
James
24 times had a special teams touchdown boston college couldn't do anything state didn't try and run to throw and they can't state can't run the ball. They didn't try to run the ball that game or throw the ball that game a lot and they won it 33 7 I just think that they feel. Shortening the game like we just talked about this whole Clemson game. But and I think Clemson is the same way man people people want to talk about Clemson this Clemson sitting here trying to pour it on nc state when with them leading in the second half of this game. No right? Clemson plays the same exact way.

01:21:11.60
redwhitepodcast
They're trying to grind it out. Yeah I mean I get it. That's part of that is because they know our offense can't do anything right? I mean that's I No no.

01:21:18.00
James
They no no, no, they do it against everybody. They play the same way against everybody you go on Washington them play and go look at their russian dude I mean like like.

01:21:27.40
redwhitepodcast
They watched him play wake Forest They were not trying to grind out that that game they were trying to keep pace with Wake Forest Wake forest offense put them. Oh I get it. It almost calls you the Eu game like.

01:21:32.88
James
Well yeah, they weren't leading by two scores. That's what I'm saying like I'm saying when they build a lead I mean they do to be firm in thirty five twelve had dja in the game in the fourth quarter they beat Louisiana tech 48 twenty hu

01:21:46.26
redwhitepodcast
This is a game you look at it this year. The offense has been so ineffective it almost calls you the ecu game right? that Kicker makes that kick you you pull that same stuff. That's that's the problem. That's what people are getting frustrated with is you can't You're not good enough to sit on the lead.

01:21:49.44
James
well well I mean like like here's my whole problem with well well the problem with the offense this year yeah I mean a problem with the office This year is East Carolina game he had 2 goal on drives you came and away with zero points I mean like if if that's normal.

01:22:05.35
redwhitepodcast
Um.

01:22:08.48
James
Then fine I just don't think that's I mean that's the first time I can recall and she stayed ever doing that you have 2 goal line drives. You don't score.

01:22:12.89
redwhitepodcast
And I don't think an state's gonna ah I don't think normal is dropping 2 interceptions and not getting a fumble shit of god either right? So we can play these what if games the offense has not been good this year it offense wasn't good at Clemson now we can argue.

01:22:20.69
James
Yeah, nothing. But.

01:22:26.10
redwhitepodcast
Why that if it was a defense it lost some game or not but the offense has been an issue all year. Well, it's such a dumb question. It's a dumb question though. It's a dumb question. Yeah I mean if my uncle had.

01:22:29.31
James
I mean I'm not arguing I think it's pretty ah, it's pretty obvious I mean y'all still had you still have an answer my question like if you you give you give you give up 30 Why is it's what happened in this game.

01:22:41.81
James
No I mean it's not an if it's it's not a. It's not an if it actually happened you gave up 30 and they didn't turn the ball over you're not winning that game. You're not like this is again why it's on the defense that should it that should end the poll right there.

01:22:42.15
redwhitepodcast
Tits. He'd be my end or whatever the phrase goes.

01:22:49.30
redwhitepodcast
M.

01:22:59.87
James
It's clearly on the defense but but I mean the offensive stuff a lot of that self-inflicted I mean you know demi sumo fumbling at the goal line against Louisville like is that Tim Bex fault I mean like great play calm pop demi sumo open wide open down them down the seam nobody near and he fumbles at the goal line.

01:23:14.97
redwhitepodcast
Yeah.

01:23:17.62
James
Touchback and I I mean the the throwback to Devon Leary in that game for a touchdown. How many points does state get for that dynamic play call I mean if you want to be if you want to like blame like look at Tim back, go to the Texas Tech Game he drew up 5 or 6 scoring plays in that game. I think in see state scored 1 of them because of execution or penalty.

01:23:41.19
redwhitepodcast
And it's not Tim, beck's one off play calling that I think people have ah have a hard time with right? He's I mean you can we we can pull out the same ones like the jump pass at mississippi state or de marcus jones what the hell are you throwing a pass with your third string running back during this clemson game like there's some. There's some questionable calls that that go both ways I think the overall of schematic of the offse. Well maybe that's the dave dorn thing right? because it's the ncc state offense is not the wisconsin oregon baby. We were promised. So maybe this is a ah different conversation. A beck has done.

01:24:17.64
James
Yeah, that's just 4 coordinators are good don up my bed. Yeah I mean like that I don't I don't know what Dave was thinking of with that. That's like you know that's who was that um, who was the first coordinator was that Canada. Yeah yeah.

01:24:25.89
redwhitepodcast
But that was all the way back to Canada. Yeah, it was all the way back there like but the but that's the point is something along the lines this all the offensive philosophy is only gonna get you so far now that so far might be non-wins might keep Dave getting his $4000000 a year. He's. Probably cool with that. But it's not going to get you to win the atlantic division right? You're not going to beat clumson consistently That's why you've only beat a one out of last 10.

01:24:45.83
James
Yeah I mean I mean like the the crazy thing about it is last year in C State did beat Clemson last year NC state did beat North Carolina and they still int win atlantic.

01:24:56.66
redwhitepodcast
Me.

01:25:05.28
James
And they lost to a team that lost both of those games that's crazy how that happens right? like wake forest one day atlantic without beating right? Wake forest one day Atlantic without beating Clemson I mean that's that tells you the beauty of beating climson sometimes I mean I guess it's just a matter of when you do it right? like weight didn't meet Clemson last year still won the Atlantic.

01:25:05.47
redwhitepodcast
Yeah, don't Yeah, don't lose to wake forest.

01:25:23.90
redwhitepodcast
Yeah, that they beat us. Dont wait beat wake forced I mean that's what it comes sort of comes down.

01:25:25.10
James
I guess wait forest us should send they should send they should send pit. Well I mean I'm just saying they should send pittsburg a thank you letter right? I mean well I mean now you got to beat wait for us too right? I'm I'm just saying it's not simply just beating Clemson. A I think.

01:25:41.19
redwhitepodcast
All sorts of beinglimson but the year you have floridas year you have wake in flora state at home beat Clemson like ah, that's that's your 1 game. That's the 1 game that matters are you you you feel pretty good about been waking home. So I think there's.

01:25:41.82
James
State proved proved that last year they beat Clemson. Ah.

01:25:58.67
redwhitepodcast
I Don't know like I feel like our office of philosophy has held us back.

01:26:00.30
James
I think some sometimes man like I look state doesn't have an aggressive ultra aggressive offensive philosophy. Even though it's weird they someone told me today and I don't know if it's true. Someone said Nc States leading the acc in past attempts for the season that's mind boggling to me if true.

01:26:15.99
redwhitepodcast
No way I gotta look this up.

01:26:17.92
James
Um, I'm about to pull it up now and see attempts per game. Yep nc state is number 1 and 38 pass attempts per game. Yeah, um, so you know ah anyhow states not really aggressive offensively I guess um.

01:26:23.98
redwhitepodcast
Oh attempts for attempts for game. Okay.

01:26:34.35
redwhitepodcast
Well, all right hold on unpack that right, you're gonna you're gonna talk about that and then your boy Danford's gonna chart it and and 80% of them are gonna be behind the sticks. So there's a difference in being aggressive with or being past happy and there's a difference between being aggressive throw the middle of the field throw it vertically.

01:26:38.20
James
That's crazy to me.

01:26:46.39
James
Right? But I don't know I don't know what.

01:26:53.37
redwhitepodcast
These are all things that you've admitted. You've said we don't do so we can just look at the stats and say yeah, we throw it a lot but we're throwing Twenty Yard outs I mean if if you had advanced analytics on this game. Larry threw more balls sideways than he did deep or more yardage sideways than he did deep I almost guarantee that.

01:27:10.33
James
Um I can pull up on I'll pull up Pf f here and look at the numbers. Um, and again I don't the like the thing we also got to realize like I don't know what other teams are doing either like I mean I don't know how many times the other teams are throwing short long. Whatever either. We're just looking at at Iny State. Um.

01:27:24.37
redwhitepodcast
We can look at him I mean like there's out and look at clumpson's right now I can already tell it's marketably different eleven many is 111515 of there.

01:27:27.41
James
But.

01:27:42.26
redwhitepodcast
28 attempts in the middle of the field. Yeah I'm looking at this passing chart right now. yeah yeah yeah yeah I put thirty fifteen other 13 or 30 were.

01:27:45.32
James
Against Iny State against Insy State where is that on P f f.

01:27:54.70
James
But how many of these were 20 plus yards down the field like how many of Clemson's throws were twenty plus yards down the field.

01:28:01.66
redwhitepodcast
Ah I'll go ten ten plus yards down the field right? because we're not even throwing tent plus 10 the bulk of clemsons are probably was that four six nine Ten Eleven twelve twelve of 30 so you know 40% it's still better than ours right? We're still throwing.

01:28:09.63
James
Ah, yeah man. But ah.

01:28:16.15
James
Okay, what were states what what were states.

01:28:21.51
redwhitepodcast
Seventy eighty percent below yeah ah how many past attempts. Do we have 47 and we threw five six seven 8 8 plus 10 right? So it's it's significantly lower.

01:28:34.48
James
Okay, but you still do rate plus 10

01:28:37.26
redwhitepodcast
But you're throwing 47 times that's the problem like you're not the bulk of your throws are are underneath short of the sticks and you're not. it's it's it's it's not aggressive enough.

01:28:46.36
James
Okay, well okay, however, we want to look at it I'm just saying if we want to say nc state's offense isn't aggressive. No I just think that we are really kind of micromanaging how we look at this thing it's like are we really saying that's capping your ceiling I mean you lost the Miami last year by 1 point

01:29:02.22
redwhitepodcast
Yes, yes, you're.

01:29:06.80
James
Hold on home. Let just finished you lost the Miami last year by 1 point you lost the wake for in a game where you threw 63 times and leary threw four hundred had four hundred and five passing yards you lost that game by 3 I mean like is all of a sudden having just a crazy more aggressive passing approach really gonna. Change the outcomes of those 2 games like does that really raise your ceiling that really raises your ceiling that much more to where you can't win those 2 games. Okay I mean I think you could have won those games playing the way you played them just win them.

01:29:25.49
redwhitepodcast
I Think it does yes I think it does I think you can win those games like I I think you win.

01:29:41.88
James
I mean like Devin Lear who was Devin Carter had a drop against Miami to put you in position field goal position to win a game with a kick on a drag route.

01:29:44.92
redwhitepodcast
That that Miami game that mi gain that defense was abused right? they were. We were down a bunch of guys I'm trying to think back like I said I'm terrible remembering these things we were down a bunch of guys right? You're down a bunch of guys in that game and that's another.

01:29:54.68
James
Yeah, my yeah yeah, State State had and that was another game out of put on it that was another game out of put on the defense.

01:30:04.90
redwhitepodcast
Perfect example why you need to be more aggressive on offense right? You need to attack vertically on offense because you can't rely on your defense to play to win those games when you're playing you know Drake Thomas is your only line back in that game. There's a lot of it. It becomes more than just. You know the defense played good defense played bad office played Golfs Play bad like you've got to be able to you know, complimentary football if your offense your defense is down a bunch of starters hey maybe we should be little we should do something different on offense right? We're not going to bank on them shutting down. Ah you know Mimi or whatever it may be whoever it may be.

01:30:27.37
James
Um, let me.

01:30:40.33
James
I mean I I don't think you like I said I don't think you're I don't think your defense has to shut anybody down I'm not asking for them to do that I mean I think if you can hold a team to 20 points. What do you mean.

01:30:40.77
redwhitepodcast
I Just think they need to be more aggressive. The philosophy sucks.

01:30:49.17
redwhitepodcast
But State is I think State is you the second half they're if they get a lead That's what they're they're expecting to do right? That's what they're trying to. They're trying to do.

01:30:59.41
James
Well, yeah, because you you feel but you feel like no I think they feel like their defense is their biggest strength. So what they're doing is they feel like they have the opposition in chase points mode like like even like today today at the press conference Dave was asked about the running game and why it struggler. And the first thing he said was I think we got impatient with it. We were only down we were only down 10 points and we got impatient with it. That's part of the problem that's part of the advantage to building a lead is you almost force the other team to now play out of their element and become even more aggressive throwing the football.

01:31:16.83
redwhitepodcast
Wait We didn't run enough right? and.

01:31:30.59
redwhitepodcast
And.

01:31:32.42
James
I told I use the North Carolina not I use a un see Notre Dame game as an example on one of these podcasts earlier like you and c's been out here throwing the ball all around the field against everybody doing all this great shit with Drake may everything just a well oiled with machine offensively and they get into this game against Notre Dame where they have to chase points and. They can't come back and win that game no matter how ah you know trained they were to do it from their aggressive offensive style and all those things we hear everybody talk about they didn't come back in windows game win that game and it's like it doesn't being a ultra aggressives doesn't guarantee you anything I mean what's you in c ceiling.

01:32:06.66
redwhitepodcast
I Agree you and C's got no defense right? and this is what we're talking about State's defense is.

01:32:09.23
James
That offense but how much does but how much does their offense play into them not having a defense because I guarantee you there are people over there on their staff that says that yeah we don't We don't want to get we.

01:32:17.31
redwhitepodcast
I don't know I don't know like I don't think so I think their defense is soft. We. We've seen other issues with their defense like I get you know you can't have an um if you run a high temple offense your defense is going to give up some touchdowns. That's that's. Just how the math works apparently but it also doesn't mean when you when you're state when state has a good enough defense. They are disruptive enough not being aggressive I think it hurts you like and so we're first and past attempts right in the Acc or eleventh in.

01:32:35.13
James
Yeah, the possession things we were talking about.

01:32:53.00
James
Yo and and now how much of how no no what? what? No no now we'll say another thing you asked Danford in terms of our our underneath passing. Go ask him? What's the completion percentage on deep throws this year go ask him how devon leary's thrown Knight so so sort not over 2 completely different arguments now.

01:32:53.10
redwhitepodcast
Yards per attempt. Are you throwing everything short and and underneath.

01:33:05.71
redwhitepodcast
Um, oh yes I mean that's yeah, all right? So it is.

01:33:12.15
James
Because now you're asking Tim Beck to throw more throw more of the shit they're doing the worst.

01:33:15.67
redwhitepodcast
I want to see them work the middle of the field more I think that's it doesn't have to be all just deep strikes fades to the corner. We're 60% and then work in the middle of the field medium depth 60% we're 69% short underneath.

01:33:23.22
James
Um I have 100% agree like I made a statement last night watching I watched yeah dude I don't understand why you don't I don't understand why you don't throw the ball more across the middle of the field either.

01:33:32.73
redwhitepodcast
Not that much worse. Yeah.

01:33:38.14
James
But I also don't think that's an indictment on anybody's job 1 way or the other like that's where again, it's like we it's like we have these 2 different discondexts where it's like folks think it's either this guy's not doing this. We should fire him or we should replace them and it's just kind of like no we should be able to critique what they're doing.

01:33:40.25
redwhitepodcast
I think.

01:33:51.81
redwhitepodcast
I don't think it's good enough I think it's not good enough I think people are that's what they're saying. They're not They're not saying that he's bad I just don't think you don't have elite talent you haven't been able to land elite wide receivers or elite offensive playmakers. You're not going to be able to have a. Ah, an offense that stresses teams if you don't scheme it up if you don't coach it differently and I think that's that's to me is where I diverge from I think Tim Beck's been fine I don't think he's been good I don't think he's been I think he's starting to get predictable leans into his tendencies too much and. This is the outcome when you play a team with elite talent. You're boned. You got no chance.

01:34:33.74
James
I mean and and the way I see it is like against the team with elite talent. You can do whatever you want to do offensively and you can scheme up whatever you want to do if your guys aren't making plays and your defenses and helping you out is not gonna really matter.

01:34:46.20
redwhitepodcast
What it? yeah.

01:34:47.87
James
I mean um I like I think there's been some. There's been a lot I think there's been a lot of teams with really cool offensive coordinators that have struggled against Clemson I mean here you know.

01:34:52.30
redwhitepodcast
I agree I think it's 2022 and you you expect your offense to carry more of the weight than the defenses. No, but nobody's defense stops. Anybody and well Georgia is the outlier George is an outlier.

01:35:00.76
James
So you but but I think Georgia still wins with their defense I think clem I think Clemson still wins with their defense.

01:35:09.68
redwhitepodcast
They're both recruiting top 2 classes right? I mean that's those your outliers look at everybody else look at look at wake look at coastal look at all these other teams. Okay look at look at coastal right? That's a team that doesn't have elite talent.

01:35:16.37
James
I mean I don't want to look I'm tired of looking at wake like place somebody for real awake I mean like like as much as we wanted like the funny thing about wait forest. How long's davelosson been there. They've they've had 1 season where they've finished above 500 acc like come on man.

01:35:27.13
redwhitepodcast
But 8 years maybe something like that. And they won the Atlantic last year he's got got more division titles than Dave does.

01:35:36.30
James
Like what 100% they did Dave Cut Dave cutcliff did Dave Cutcliffe did that too. But I mean like come on like Mike Yeo might do it this year I asked nothing I love about jobs like wake forestce I've been telling people this few years and we're about to start seeing it right now like you remember how we were told all this year Dave Cutcliffe was doing stuff that no one could ever do with Duke or no one's ever done it duke.

01:35:52.96
redwhitepodcast
Had him I don't mind that.

01:35:56.10
James
Let Mike Elco win ace let let him win the division this year I guarantee you when they went close and moves on at wake forest us just like with Jim Grove who people forget did Jim Grob ble a division title. Yeah, exactly.

01:36:04.15
redwhitepodcast
Yeah, he won a division he won Ac championship. Yeah yeah or took what they did the same shit. How do he do it. They both ran unique offenses. They don't friend of time.

01:36:10.80
James
But we were told only davelause is doing something no one at Wake Forest can do not man the guy before him did the same shit like come on I mean come on man we we we just we give these guys All we give these guys these places so much credit and it's like come on dude like other guys can do it too.

01:36:22.51
redwhitepodcast
Ah.

01:36:27.21
redwhitepodcast
I'm trying to bring it back with they do it by running unique so unique schemes with without the the elite talent right? Alabama Georgia can run base defense and whip people.

01:36:28.30
James
Other guys can do it too. Thank you.

01:36:35.75
James
It's a it's a perfect world to be in I mean it's a perfect world to be in we we're sitting here talking all these we spent ten fifteen minutes talking about how Nc states not doing what they need to do to be Clemson right? I mean like has. Dave Klaus and ever beaten Clemson with his unique offense. No never but he did win it but but he did win the at Atlantic but he did win the Atlantic. No if you go back and look at their numbers. It didn't just been the defense in that series.

01:36:52.11
redwhitepodcast
No because you have a defense. Yeah.

01:37:06.33
James
If you go back and look at their numbers I mean I can pull it up right here. They've not been scoring a lot of points in that series. You know I mean 2021 they scored 28 Twenty Nineteen they scored 3 and 2019 they lost 52 to 3 52 to 3 and 20192018

01:37:09.41
redwhitepodcast
I I think I I think the greater point is State's defense is good enough. Yeah, the greater point is State's defense is good enough and you're not getting it from your offense.

01:37:26.20
James
63 to 3 they lost 63 to 3 in 2018 I mean I'm I'm just saying like the unique offense and helping them beat Clemson either. It's not.

01:37:27.56
redwhitepodcast
You not getting anything from your offense. Let's again. Trevor Lord Travis eat and they beat the crap out of us to forty one seven we just talked about that like because they have no defense and that's where states got the advantage states got a good defense. They've a really good defense. If you got anything out of your offense other than two hundred yards

01:37:48.74
James
Man we've we've seen state we've seen state score 38 points and lose the Clemson we've seen state score 14 points and beat Clemson I mean there's multiple ways like we could sit here and looking in 28 Twenty seventeen that state lost that game 30 8 31 at home.

01:38:02.98
redwhitepodcast
Yeah.

01:38:06.81
James
Defense should have showed up that day and you and you win that game right? I made like and that's caught. That's all I'm saying circling it back to this game. How many times have you been able to score 38 points on Clemson. That's one it and that was at home.

01:38:21.35
redwhitepodcast
Yeah.

01:38:23.97
James
That same ah offense that same off wins went back in 2018 and lost 41 seven down there. We're under, we're under estimating what it's like playing in that environment and what it does for both units for both units for both units. That's why I'm sitting here and saying like.

01:38:35.74
redwhitepodcast
Um I have I have I have no I'm not at all I understand that and I it's it's tough to win again.

01:38:43.98
James
1 ne' saying that's why I'm sitting here saying we're we're both saying the offense wasn't good. The defense wasn't good Clemson played clean and you lost 30 to 20 like maybe we should just kind of say okay state might have a chance this year to be pretty good if they can go down and do that.

01:38:54.13
redwhitepodcast
I Have no doubt I'm not I'm not saying they're not I I think this team is good I've I've picked them to win most their games like I think this team is real good.

01:39:00.86
James
I just think ceilings is tough ceilings is tough because it's like you know I mean I was one for years who said Tony Bennett had a ceiling because of the offense they play and that's and that ceiling became a national championship.

01:39:10.63
redwhitepodcast
I will say that if if State maintains this the offense efficiency and the way the offense is played so far this year they will they will lose another game.

01:39:26.27
James
Oh no I expect den see state to lose another game I think I had him'm probably going 10 and two. Well I mean but but better is relative like you don't have to you don't have to be better to lose a game or I mean ah e I saw the.

01:39:26.74
redwhitepodcast
I don't I don't think anybody in the schedules better is good enough to to say that states can be favored in the rest of the games. How about that stay to me favor in the rest of these games. They'll lose 1 if their offense doesn't improve.

01:39:42.95
James
I saw the Espn thing had um, an underdog at Syracuse.

01:39:47.24
redwhitepodcast
Ah, that line hadnt come out. Yeah, that's probably just some Fpi projection that lines on out.

01:39:51.35
James
Yeah I mean like yeah I think stay to lose another game. Um I Just think it's hard. Well I don't know I mean maybe I mean they like I said I thought they lost this game because their defense So I I.

01:39:54.90
redwhitepodcast
And it will be because of the offense a hundred percent will say.

01:40:07.20
James
I mean I don't know what did you like like last year at wait for is 45 42 you thought they lost that game because their offense.

01:40:12.33
redwhitepodcast
I don't think theen was again I don't remember I need to go back and look at I don't think the offene was particularly great that year at that game I think they if I recall correctly there was a lot of ah third down back shoulder jump balls to a mezzy he had 10030 plus yards that game like. It. It was not efficient, right? and this these are some of the things we did when we gave up a ton. We threw some interceptions I don't really remember that game specifically. Yeah I could look at a box score and I can make up a narrative. It doesn't mean it was good I mean Devin Leary's cubr was sub sixty that game. That's not good.

01:40:36.21
James
But I'm saying you scored you scored 42 points in that game.

01:40:46.59
James
Well I mean Devin Learary's Cubbir is never going to be good. He's like the he's like the poster child for throwing out qbr you know one of the biggest factors in qbr is quarterback rushing ability. So like I like yeah I mean cubir like who is the guy on Twitter that's always using cube qbr and David Hale it's like dude.

01:40:48.48
redwhitepodcast
Like.

01:40:55.56
redwhitepodcast
Yeah.

01:41:05.92
James
There's a reason the the guys who don't can't run are always bad at Qbr I mean they can't run I mean you know they fact they're in rushing.

01:41:09.36
redwhitepodcast
Yeah, we couldn't run that game either that was that was another part of it the offense seventy yards rushing I mean like it. It wasn't good. There's a reason we lost that game. There's everybody else running on wake forest all year and state couldn't right? The offense is has led us down before and I think it lets down this past game. And that's I think if that offense keeps up, we're losing another game this year and I don't think we should.

01:41:31.80
James
I mean like I said I mean I like I said I expect state to lose another game and I if I if you would have told me Clemson will score 30 points I just said they'd have lost the game I don't I just don't think I don't think it's reasonable to expect your offense to go into Clemson and that environment and to score 30 plus points. Without getting any help from your defense I don't think that's very I don't think that's going to happen and I don't know I mean you really you you you can should we not add that asterisk to the poll like we should add that stat in there like hey consider this guys before you factor in Tim Beck consider in that.

01:41:52.44
redwhitepodcast
Yeah.

01:42:03.43
redwhitepodcast
What's that.

01:42:09.19
James
Score 30 man without turning a ball of take yeah give the d for he get the offense any help he give me. Yeah, you can't you can't give me a twenty yard field to go I mean.

01:42:22.69
redwhitepodcast
You're not going to get though I mean you're not always get those. You did you got a forty eight yard field and you didn't get it like you had your short field 52 sorry they're on the forty eight I just ah, the offense is not good enough to to win that game defense. Yeah.

01:42:26.39
James
4052 52 yeah I mean yeah yeah I mean.

01:42:38.24
James
Ah, clearly I agree I mean when you got when you have to do that. It's not good enough now if you if you had to score 17 It might have been good enough to win it. You know I mean it might have been good enough to win it if you had to score 17 like last year I mean out of took.

01:42:39.81
redwhitepodcast
Defense gave up light in the game gave up some some nonsense.

01:42:49.50
redwhitepodcast
It's debatable.

01:42:55.28
James
20 points last year but you know I mean like I said I'll leave it to the poll though I mean I'll I'll gladly admit I was wrong and what's the poll at 92% now I gladly admit I was wrong and yeah.

01:43:01.45
redwhitepodcast
Yeah again, ten thirteen and halftime think everybody takes that says yeah, that's good performance from your defense held clumpsson the 13 like I that's what that's it's 20 ways. Simple Paul what's that.

01:43:14.40
James
How bad was the offense. You should ask him that you should ask him how bad was the offense. They only scored 10 points in the first half.

01:43:23.92
redwhitepodcast
It's like it's like we can flip it around. It wasn't good like I mean yeah.

01:43:25.98
James
I mean you only you had 3 possessions you scored on 2 of your 3 possessions like that's good. That's good. It's it's the reason the defense looked good from a scoring standpoint that to me is where we really go into box score step looking. Yeah, 13 points on the surface looks good from a defensive standpoint half time. They arent they scored on 75% of their possessions in the first half wake forest or Clemson did.

01:43:53.10
redwhitepodcast
Um, out here's your boy Bill Connolly just put out a tweet and he's analyzing box scores his his first one is Clemson N C State Clemson offense didn't didn't have much to do just avoid mistakes and wait for the field to tilt your favor. It usually did.

01:44:09.63
James
Okay I know that mains but okay.

01:44:11.51
redwhitepodcast
It it means your offs didn't do anything so you're the defens through there or the off they knew they were getting the ballback right? They didn't have to do anything is Asp this is Bill Colonley S people us Espn I wrote my preview that it was Devin Lery's moment if he was ready for it. Well.

01:44:19.13
James
Oh this this was this was the nerd guy Conley. Yeah yeah, yeah, dust.

01:44:30.65
redwhitepodcast
Maybe not and so yeah.

01:44:32.57
James
Yeah, Devon Leary was terrible that game man I mean I can't believe like that that that that to me is like the that to me the talking point coming out of that game is Devin Leary unbelievable I mean I don't I don't pay attention to that I don't pay attention to the nerd to the nerd guys.

01:44:36.33
redwhitepodcast
He was okay.

01:44:42.10
redwhitepodcast
I think he was okay I'll think he's great.

01:44:48.60
James
Like I mean like that's the same guy who told me what was the game last? oh he said I think Connie last year had clemsons 70% chance to win that game at home against state last year by the way somehow his somehow his analytics pulled that put that together when when state had you know, completely dominated that game just remind just remind folks of that like your so quote tweetak that.

01:44:54.12
redwhitepodcast
I Mean yeah, it looks at the numbers. Yeah.

01:45:03.69
redwhitepodcast
Ah, ah.

01:45:06.66
James
And put the 1 from last year in there with it so they can look at that and see I mean come on man I I sometimes I get in I get into Conley with with with ah your guy Ethan on our pod I get into Conley about um, it's just kind of like.

01:45:06.83
redwhitepodcast
Yeah.

01:45:12.35
redwhitepodcast
You Yeah, he.

01:45:22.27
redwhitepodcast
Ah, go go have a heart to heart with danford and ask him what he thinks of lear's performance this year

01:45:26.55
James
We talked we talked on the pod last night I mean Leary Dan Dan ah Philip it doesn't think Dev Devin's been great this year.

01:45:29.74
redwhitepodcast
Yeah I'm telling you and and you and I've been disagreeing on this like I feel like he's is he's not been good at.

01:45:35.49
James
I think Devin Leary's fine I mean I think Devin Leary's been asked to be what he's been asked to be when he's been asked to play with volume. He's put up numbers.

01:45:40.52
redwhitepodcast
Which is you put up numbers. He's got 12 and 3 right? This best number you quoted me.

01:45:47.89
James
Um, but I mean like I'm not gonna hold I'm not yeah I'm not gonna hold ecu against him when he threw the ball 23 times likes folks, want four hundred yards right folks want four hundred yards from Devon Leary when he's throwing the ball 23 times in the game. It's mindbogging to me like I don't know what the expectations are Texas tech. He threw the ball 27 times

01:45:52.44
redwhitepodcast
Yeah, he's 12 touchdown 3 inceptions nine of those.

01:46:06.39
redwhitepodcast
Okay, so are you telling me the the offense is not utilizing its personnel The best way could yeah ah I know fucking miracles. Yeah.

01:46:06.91
James
I mean come on man. What? what's he gonna do no I'm telling you the offense is doing what they need to do to win the football game. They won both of the games I mentioned I mean they they do they They don't give shits they don't give shits about style points.

01:46:21.34
redwhitepodcast
I know.

01:46:24.14
James
Whether we agree with it or not. They're not going out there to make us happy and score a lot of points and make us feel good. They're going out to win the football game and like if we want to use that to judge Jeff and Leary I mean we can't like I've seen Devin Leary be fine. It's just a matter if they're going to give him an opportunity to be good or not.

01:46:26.34
redwhitepodcast
Yeah.

01:46:38.29
redwhitepodcast
He's okay.

01:46:42.46
James
You got you even mentioned it. They're asking Devon Leary to bail you out right? Did you mention that how many court except how many quarterbacks excel in that situation. Yeah.

01:46:44.59
redwhitepodcast
Yeah, third down that's so that's our offense. That's what it's been under Dave Doran third down Devin yeah, not many like your offense is let you down again because but you're relying on that's again, it brings back to my point your you don't.

01:46:59.38
James
Then against Clemson I mean they were 6 of 13 on third down they weren't too bad.

01:47:03.65
redwhitepodcast
We were 4 of 13 or I guess I'll I didn't see a last drive 4 13 before that like that's any good. They weren't good anyway, all right hour 45 minutes James hour 45 minutes and we got nowhere.

01:47:14.89
James
So I mean like I said we can blame the ah you blame the defense you blame the offense up. Yeah I got to get some work done man I mean people like they're sending me, they're sitting. They're sending me to well I mean look, we're not converting. We're not converting either 1 of us right? we're not switching our takes on this. yeah we're not switching our takes on this

01:47:22.64
redwhitepodcast
But is I enjoy this? No this is like a political discussion. Yeah.

01:47:32.10
James
I'll let the poll speak for itself. The the public can decide it. They're saying 95% i'mssuming now and rising that that Tim Beck is to blame for Clemson for NC state not going to Clemson and knocking off undefeated Clemson and tiger stadium when they were.

01:47:40.57
redwhitepodcast
The E b.

01:47:49.86
James
30 points offensively and scored 7 out of 10 drives I mean I blame Tim Beck for that. Okay I there you go? Yeah man hey tell wheel to quit dodging me tell wheel to quit dodging me.

01:47:53.55
redwhitepodcast
You back The coaches I back the people and that's what happens that's where we are as always Jamesve good conversation. But I I appreciate I Always appreciate your perspective. Yeah, we'll get will on here. He's hiding.

01:48:09.17
James
He's hot somewhere.

01:48:11.42
redwhitepodcast
Um, know it like he said his boss is making him do work his boss listens this podcast he he give him an hour and give him an hour

01:48:16.40
James
Yeah, um, would almost tell his ball hey wheel's boss He he's dodging me. He didn't want to come on and get this heat.

01:48:23.95
redwhitepodcast
We'll set it up. We'll get it back on when we get some more time but as always dude I appreciate it. Ah yeahall, thanks for listening if you made this far appreciate it. Go back.

01:48:25.92
James
Now I Love Will man. Yeah, oh yeah, definitely.